The Indonesian Army

[Ananda]

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This video shown First Batch of Harimau/Kaplan MT, do goes to KODAM Cavalry Battalion level as AMX 13 replacement. Thus it is just matter how fast they can be procure and produce, for time table on replacing AMX 13 overall.

Pangdam VI/Mlw Kunjungi Satuan Batalyon Kavaleri 13/SL - Balpos

Berpesan Agar Menjadi Prajurit Andal, Tanggap, dan Tangguh

www.balpos.com

This Battalion is one of user that still operate AMX-13 75 (as the photo from last January article of Balikpapan Post shown). Located in Balikpapan thus near the New Capital IKN, is not coincidence on why this Battalion choose to become Harimau first user.

Add:
More complete video on Harimau MT entering their new home in West Kalimantan 13th Cavalry Battalion.

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https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1767397926324879439

 

[deadlast]

Pangdam VI/Mlw Kunjungi Satuan Batalyon Kavaleri 13/SL - Balpos

Berpesan Agar Menjadi Prajurit Andal, Tanggap, dan Tangguh

www.balpos.com

This Battalion is one of user that still operate AMX-13 75 (as the photo from last January article of Balikpapan Post shown). Located in Balikpapan thus near the New Capital IKN, is not coincidence on why this Battalion choose to become Harimau first user.

This unit used the ex-Dutch AMX-13/105, that photo shows the double baffle muzzle device (Bow-tie shaped) at the end of the barrel, indicating it is the CN 105-57 gun version mounted on the FL-12 turret (All AMX-13 with FL-12 turret were obtained from the Dutch, all of them use 105mm gun) instead of the original CN 75-50 (SA 50) with single baffle muzzle device (rectangular shaped) on the FL-10 turret sourced directly from the French.

Also, if you see another double baffle muzzle device on the Indonesian AMX-13 and it has a rounded shape/profile (instead of bow-tie shape of the CN 105-57 muzzle device) then you are looking at the upgraded tanks with CN 105-G1 gun, mostly found on the ex-Dutch tanks, but sometimes you see them on the old French sourced AMX-13 chassis but with the Dutch FL-12 turret fitted on top mounted with or without the upgraded CN 105-G1 gun.

To add, Pindad's AMX-13/Retrofit also used the upgraded CN 105-G1 gun, but they opt to slapped on the SK-105 Kurassier turret instead of reusing the existing FL-12 turret.

 

[Ananda]

unit used the ex-Dutch AMX-13/105, that photo shows the double baffle muzzle device (Bow-tie shaped) at the end of the barrel, indicating it is the CN 105-57 gun version mounted on the FL-12 turret (All AMX-13 with FL-12 turret were obtained from the Dutch, all of them use 105mm gun) instead of the original CN 75-50 (SA 50) with single baffle muzzle device (rectangular shaped) on the FL-10 turret sourced directly from the French.

Thanks for correction. My amateur eyes got miss identify with 75-50. I thought this is similar to this 75-50 picture:



Thus I miss identify 105-57 with 75-50. Thanks for explanation. 105-G1 is easier to differentiate for me. However honestly I also miss to see that in Pindad retrofit, they use Kurrasier turret. I thought Pindad modified and add-on armour on FL-12 turret.

 

[deadlast]

Thus I miss identify 105-57 with 75-50. Thanks for explanation. 105-G1 is easier to differentiate for me. However honestly I also miss to see that in Pindad retrofit, they use Kurrasier turret. I thought Pindad modified and add-on armour on FL-12 turret.

The easiest way to differentiate between SK-105 Kurassier, Steyr JT-1 turret and the original French, Fives-Cail-Babcock FL-12 turret is to look at the design of their antenna base/mount, the Steyr JT-1 has square-ish base antenna shape, while the FL-12 has triangular-ish shape instead.
The other giveaway is the number of smoke-grenade launcher/projectors, FL-12 has two launcher on each side of the turret while JT-1 has three launcher on each side.
The other notable one is the large optic housing on the roof of the JT-1 turret magazines (not present on the original FL-12 turret), in the original JT-1 turret it accommodate the laser rangefinder module, while on the Pindad's retrofit it was repurposed to house the EO component (laser range finder, thermal imager, day camera) for the new FCS.

 

[Ananda]

while on the Pindad's retrofit it was repurposed to house the EO component (laser range finder, thermal imager, day camera) for the new FCS.

@deadlast do you have more info on the AMX VCI retrofit ? Today I found the info on Indian upgrade and retrofit of their BMP II (put it on Indian Army thread). Info so far also that Pindad also doing retrofit not just to AMX 13 but also VCI ones. Still not much I could find on VCI retrofit.

With limited procurement budget to the Army, as more being allocated toward AF and Navy procurement, retrofitting existing assets is the most Army can hope for. Perhaps I'm wrong but with their ambition on increasing Army Airwing and Point Defense, just not see much room in Armour except for Pandur II and Pindad new products.

 

[deadlast]

@deadlast do you have more info on the AMX VCI retrofit ? Today I found the info on Indian upgrade and retrofit of their BMP II (put it on Indian Army thread). Info so far also that Pindad also doing retrofit not just to AMX 13 but also VCI ones. Still not much I could find on VCI retrofit.

With limited procurement budget to the Army, as more being allocated toward AF and Navy procurement, retrofitting existing assets is the most Army can hope for. Perhaps I'm wrong but with their ambition on increasing Army Airwing and Point Defense, just not see much room in Armour except for Pandur II and Pindad new products.

They did upgrade some of the VCI/VCTB version IINM.
The scope should be the same with the AMX-13/Retrofit, powerpack/drivetrain/suspension wise but without the gun/turret/fcs upgrade part.

Spoiler: During retrofit process:

Img Source 1
Img Source 2
Img Source 3

Note the same glacis shape with the AMX-13 Retrofit to accommodate new powerpack and drivetrain.

Btw, the number of vehicle getting the upgrade/retrofit is pretty low, the exact number is blur but I hear only less than 30 vehicle get them (overall, for both the AMX-13 Retrofit & AMX VCI/VCTB), again, the budget is the limiting factor here, but the upgrade cost itself, by a some is deemed too much, probably due to the fact that most of the upgrade items are sourced from other countries and also compared to the cost of second-hand MBT across Europe at the time (before Ukraine conflict).

Agreed, hard to see the army get new allocation for armor following the recent trend of MoD budgeting, the most they could do near term is increasing the Pandur/Harimau order through Pindad to get enough traction with 'Karya Anak Bangsa' or 'ToT' (as much as I hate that sentence/term) magic to secure their funding.

But I also found these:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1712397856060166481

Technical discussion about AMX-13 Retrofit program using 2023 foreign loan allocation. So maybe we're going to get more AMX-13 Retrofit in the future? weird that they used foreign loan for these but, who knows.

 

[Ananda]

weird that they used foreign loan for these but, who knows.

PDN means more likely they use domestic financial institutions (FI) creditors line (most likely from SOE Banks), while PLN use international FI credits line. It's more likely related to each creditors availability.

Source of supplier can also matter, if (as some perticular Euro Salesman claim) that getting Euro FI line is harder for Turkish products, perhaps the domestic FI more willing to take that deal. All I know that whether to use Overseas or Domestic credit line, tied up with availabilities of credit line offering. They are going to be differ base on each FI credit appetites assessment.

 

[Ananda]

In 2022 Pindad and Nexter already sign MOU for Ammo co-op production. Recently Indonesian journalists team being invited to Nexter Land Based facility in France. The purpose seems Nexter information on the scope of co-op, and development on the co-op.

The video in Indonesia, however Nexter team explanation is in English.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

This video shown First Batch of Harimau/Kaplan MT, do goes to KODAM Cavalry Battalion level as AMX 13 replacement. Thus it is just matter how fast they can be procure and produce, for time table on replacing AMX 13 overall.

Pangdam VI/Mlw Kunjungi Satuan Batalyon Kavaleri 13/SL - Balpos

Berpesan Agar Menjadi Prajurit Andal, Tanggap, dan Tangguh

www.balpos.com

This Battalion is one of user that still operate AMX-13 75 (as the photo from last January article of Balikpapan Post shown). Located in Balikpapan thus near the New Capital IKN, is not coincidence on why this Battalion choose to become Harimau first user.

Add:
More complete video on Harimau MT entering their new home in West Kalimantan 13th Cavalry Battalion.

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https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1767397926324879439

Here we have a longer video of the delivery of the first Harimau Medium Tanks. We can also see that there were at least 2 and maybe even 3 Harimaus delivered.
Penerimaan Medium Tank Harimau, produksi bersama PT Pindad Indonesia dan FNSS, Turki. - YouTube

Update: Here we can see that at least 9 Harimau Medium Tanks are delivered to Yonkav 13.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1770719282361426004

In 2022 Pindad and Nexter already sign MOU for Ammo co-op production. Recently Indonesian journalists team being invited to Nexter Land Based facility in France. The purpose seems Nexter information on the scope of co-op, and development on the co-op.

The video in Indonesia, however Nexter team explanation is in English.

I dont understand why Kompas put the same fake explosion sound over every part where there is a shot. Better to not add anything. Amateurs...

 

[Ananda]

Around less then an hour ago, there's fire in one of TNI-AD armory in Jakarta suburb area call Bekasi. This is a rare situation, the last time Armory in Jakarta having fire accident is close to four decades ago, when Marines Armory cought fire.

No progress on this yet, from what I heard. The fire brigade are still keeping their distance due to explosions. Seems they are now more focus on evacuating the surrounding residences. This is going to raise questions on Army Armory procedures and can be politicaly highlights close after election times.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Around less then an hour ago, there's fire in one of TNI-AD armory in Jakarta suburb area call Bekasi. This is a rare situation, the last time Armory in Jakarta having fire accident is close to four decades ago, when Marines Armory cought fire.

No progress on this yet, from what I heard. The fire brigade are still keeping their distance due to explosions. Seems they are now more focus on evacuating the surrounding residences. This is going to raise questions on Army Armory procedures and can be politicaly highlights close after election times.

According to Antara it happened in Bogor-area.

Mobil pemadam mulai masuk ke lokasi ledakan gudang amunisi

Mobil pemadam kebakaran Dinas Pemadam Kebakaran Provinsi DKI Jakarta, mulai memasuki lokasi ledakan gudang amunisi daerah (gudmurah) milik Kodam Jaya, yang ...

m.antaranews.com

Pemprov DKI turunkan robot untuk padamkan api di Gudmurah Ciangsana

Kepala Dinas Penanggulangan Kebakaran dan Penyelamatan (Gulkarmat) DKI, Satriadi Gunawan mengatakan pihaknya menurunkan dua robot khusus untuk memadamkan api ...

m.antaranews.com

 

[Ananda]

Pangdam: Penyebab Kebakaran Gudang Peluru dari Amunisi yang Bergesek

Penyebab awal ledakan di gudang amunisi di Kabupaten Bogor diduga adanya gesekan antar amunisi yang menimbulkan asap.

www.cnnindonesia.com

Commanding General of Jakarta Military District told media that the ammo in the burned armory are already expired munitions. It should be and already in the process to be destroy and disposed. However although he doesn't say that in media, by the way he said that, it is hold up under bureaucracy process.

However he's certain no casualties as the armory already build underground and sealed by layers of concrete. This means with the kind of fire and exolosions (as video showns), the actual munition cook up quite significant (considering) the facility is already underground.

Either way I do suspect this will lead questioning and investigating on the munition disposal process.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

So there are two positive points in this munition depot accident.
1. No casualties.
2. Only the destruction of old and expired stuff. (And not brand new expensive advanced items like NLAWs, AGM-114 Hellfires, FGM-148 Javelins and Starstreaks.)

 

[Ananda]

PT. Pindad (Persero) - PT Pindad Teken Perjanjian Kerja Sama dengan Lahab UEA terkait Investasi di Bidang Munisi

pindad.com

What UAE can give on this agreement? Two thing; Investment and Market. Basically with this agreement UAE give money to Pindad to build new capacity and then provide additional market to take some of those additional capacity. This is answer part of problem on expansion of capacity for Indonesia MIC, whose going to absorb excess additional capacity.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Here we have a video, posted yesterday by CNN Indonesia, about the Respati Mk.III RCWS. A Remote Controlled Weapon System designed and developed by PT. Respati Solusi Rekatama, and the domestic content seems to exceed 58%. The RCWS consists of day-night vision camera, an IR-camera and laser rangefinder, but during the demonstration it seems the operator needs to touch the touchscreen every second, just to keep the system focussed on the moving target.

With a cost/price of Rp12.000.000.000 it is much cheaper than foreign systems (Rp18-20 M), and the Ministery of Defence already ordered 11 units of it.

Remote Controlled Weapon Station - PT Respati Solusi Rekatama

rsr.co.id

 

[Ananda]

From KERIS FB Log into Facebook

Between Harimau Kaplan Medium Tank and difficulty getting more Leo 2 MBT (due to Ukrainian War), Personally I still suspect more AMX 13 and AMX VCI get refurbished and upgrade program, as those in picture above.

Yes Harimau supposedly become replacement for AMX 13 and that program Pindad has with FNSS on IFV based with Harimau Hull is supposedly replacing AMX VCI. However even they move on schedule (which I highly doubtful) they need at least a decade more to replace all AMX. Which's why I still suspect some additional AMX will still get this upgrade after current batch.

 

[koxinga]

Interesting photo of a gun truck operating with Yonif 6 Marinir Gobang II, taken at Dekai, Yahukimo, Papua.

One guy infront with an RPG, back to back seating, gun ports all round. The rest of the team on security duty, with eyes front and rear.

Looks like a local conversion.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Interesting photo of a gun truck operating with Yonif 6 Marinir Gobang II, taken at Dekai, Yahukimo, Papua.

One guy infront with an RPG, back to back seating, gun ports all round. The rest of the team on security duty, with eyes front and rear.

Looks like a local conversion.

I think this is the reason why TNI still use obsolete oldtimers like the AMX-VCI, BTR-40, BTR-50, Ferret, Saladin and Saracen. The requirement for APC is that high, that they use such modified trucks which give no protection at all from attacks from higher grounds.

The whole acquisition procedure of the 21 BT-3F and 22 BMP-3F vehicles for the Korps Marinir with a total cost of over $170 million was too late and/or too slow. Because of that stupid CAATSA, Korps Marinir can never get now these things they urgently need.

 

[Ananda]

Using Armoured Civilian Truck has been done also in Aceh.

It is relatively cheap, the Truck has plenty commercials support chain parts, and more importantly it is not involve foreign MIC supply chain.

The last one infact can be more factor that determine using those upgrade armoured civilian truck. Remember politically, Jakarta still state Papua operation is security operation and not military/defence operations. Those imported armoured vehicles especially from Western suppliers are supplied to Indonesia for Indonesian Defence need. Even those that build by PINDAD but with Western Military grade parts.

One other thing, those Isuzu and Mitsubishi Truck is very durable and dependable. They can basically move everywhere. Just like Toyota Hilux.

 

[Ananda]

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Photo from KERIS FB on TNI Chief in Eurosatory take photo in front of Rheinmettal KF-41 Lynx. As usual this kind of Photo get reactions from Indonesian Enthusiasts. Most talking on interest on overall platform, only minority that seems talk the most obvious one. TNI are looking for turret for next batch of Harimau Medium Tank.

Indonesian already invest with Harimau Medium Tank, thus unlikely they are going to invest on another 'medium tank' platform. However what being circulating so far that Pindad and MinDef not really satisfied with Cockeril turret. Both on prices and more importantly on level of Tech Transfer agreement.

Whether they can get better deal with Rheinmettal is another thing.