I think that you really need an 8 x 8 regardless, because an 8 x 8 can go places that a 6 x 6 can't. On the modern battlefield that may make the big difference.
The Indonesian Army
- Thread starter DavidDCM
- Start date
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
I was just thinking, you dont see often 10×10 armoured vehicles, the MOWAG Piranha IIIC 10×10 is the only 10×10 APC in existence, as far as i know.
How about this image below? Is it a real 8×8 Pindad prototype?
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Ananda
The Bunker Group
Sandhi, I'm afraid this photo is already moving around for sometime. It is part on local Fanboys speculation on supposedly Anoa 3 project.
Pindad before Pandur already talk with Indian Tata for Kestrel. Then come out rumours on Anoa 8x8 that's being dubbed by locals enthusiast as Anoa 3. This is where the Photoshop come out before.
I would think that it would be cost and even though 10 x 10 does have some benefits over 8 x 8 such as:
- Redundancy of drive assemblies in the case of a drive assembly failure due to combat damage
- High cross-country mobility with crew comfort
- Minimal vehicle width for air-transportability (the 10 × 10 model is air-portable in a Lockheed Martin C-130)
- Enhanced crew protection against mines
- Increased protection against direct fire. Source: Army Guide
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Inikah panser baru yang akan jadi basis Anoa 3 Pindad?
AIRSPACE REVIEW (airspace-review.com) - Menjelang pameran pertahanan International Indo Defence 2022 yang berlangsung tanggal 2-5 November
www.airspace-review.com
So this seems to be the real Pindad Anoa 3, which looks really similar to the Panhard VAB Mk.3.
I don't know if the Anoa 3 is a licence made VAB Mk.3 or if the Anoa 3 is a joint development based on Anoa 2 with too much VAB Mk.3 DNA.
Edit:
I just found this video.
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Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
It seems indeed to be the Oerlikon Skyranger. But in this article they are saying its a 35 mm.
Pindad perkenalkan Badak 6X6 SPAAG di Indo Defence 2022
AIRSPACE REVIEW (airspace-review.com) - Di arena outdoor JIExpo Kemayoran, Jakarta tampak berjajar rapi kendaraan tempur (ranpur) buatan PT
www.airspace-review.com
On this video we can see on the placard on the backside, that it was originally a Badak Kanon 90, and probably later modified with the Oerlikon Skyranger.
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Panhard confirms tgis is the Anoa 3.
Arquus et PT Pindad présentent l'ANOA 3 à Indodefense | Arquus
www.arquus-defense.com
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Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Here some land vehicles news and other things from Indodefence 2022.
POLRI ordered 30 Nurol Makina NMS 4×4 armoured vehicles for its Mobile Brigade.
www.airspace-review.com
It seems to be a multifunctional advanced MRAP with modular armour. Perfect for support during natural disasters, SAR in difficult terrain and hunting terrorists in mountainous areas.
www.nurolmakina.com.tr
Updates about the Anoa 3 and other Pindad news.
- They talking about joint Anoa 3 production with Panhard, but in fact it is licence production.
- Pindad shows some interesting new assault rifles and pistols. The description on the tags/placards is not really clear but i expect these are new SS2 variants.
- The production of 120mm munitions HE/HEAT-TP/APFSDS for Leopard 2 in cooperation with GIAT (already announced earlier this year).
We also see the PAL stand with a model of a 163 m version of the Makassar Class of LPDs, their amazing 143 m National Destroyer, and for some reason PAL seems to be suddenly able to design in house an autonomous underwater vehicle/submarine.
And why they promote the RBS 15 Mk.3 and IRIS-T is totally unclear for me.
Correct me if i am wrong, but i have the feeling that the new president-director of PAL has a little bit fanboyism.
POLRI ordered 30 Nurol Makina NMS 4×4 armoured vehicles for its Mobile Brigade.
Brimob Polri pesan 30 ranpur ringan NMS 4X4 dari J-Forces
AIRSPACE REVIEW (airspace-review.com) - Dalam demo dinamis kegiatan Indo Defence 2022 di JIExpo Kemayoran, Jakarta kendaraan tempur (ranpur)
www.airspace-review.com
Nurol Makina - NMS 4x4
www.nurolmakina.com.tr
Updates about the Anoa 3 and other Pindad news.
- They talking about joint Anoa 3 production with Panhard, but in fact it is licence production.
- Pindad shows some interesting new assault rifles and pistols. The description on the tags/placards is not really clear but i expect these are new SS2 variants.
- The production of 120mm munitions HE/HEAT-TP/APFSDS for Leopard 2 in cooperation with GIAT (already announced earlier this year).
We also see the PAL stand with a model of a 163 m version of the Makassar Class of LPDs, their amazing 143 m National Destroyer, and for some reason PAL seems to be suddenly able to design in house an autonomous underwater vehicle/submarine.
And why they promote the RBS 15 Mk.3 and IRIS-T is totally unclear for me.
Correct me if i am wrong, but i have the feeling that the new president-director of PAL has a little bit fanboyism.
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Ananda
The Bunker Group
Turkiye media Anadolu put this infographic on what is going to be Pindad Partner for that ITBM 600 MLRS (which Sandhi and Arji talk before in post #1,121-1,122). This Long Range MLRS will out reach current Brazilian Astros MLRS in TNI-AD.
This is also aswer the MLRS vehicle on Pindad slide graphics that I put in post #1,110. Well seems Turkiye did won quite a number of effective contract.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Text editing in progress...
So it wasn't just an imaginary program after all, im quite surprised. Here some more details.
The offer seems to be submitted by Roketsan to the main contractor Excalibur company, and the loan to Indonesia will be provided by Czech Eximbank. The main contractor Excalibur signed a contract with the Indonesian Ministry of Defense for the sale. So, there is a chance that the majority of the production of the weaponsystem will be done by Roketsan and Excalibur, with only a very small part by Pindad.
ROKETSAN Signs Contract with Indonesia for KHAN Ballistic Missile System and HISAR Air Defense Missile System - MilitaryLeak.COM
ROKETSAN signed a contract for KHAN Ground-to-ground Ballistic Missile System and HISAR Air Defense Missile System to Indonesia during the Indo Defense 2022
militaryleak.com
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Ananda
The Bunker Group
Already few days old, not have time to add all development of signing from Indo Defence. However put this one, as ammo development for Pindad is matter in my opinion. After all it is still their main bread and butter. Thus this signing with Nexter on licensing 120mm for MBT ammo quite matter for them.
Put it here, as Pindad show case the kind of 120mm ammo that they're going to license from Nexter.
Talking on Ammo, they are also sign similar agreement with MSM from Slovakia for 100mm, 105mm, 155mm and 122mm MLRS GRAD rocket.
There're several agreement they have sign on that official site article. However I emphasis the ones on ammo as this's still their bread and butter. That agreement with MSM on 122mm GRAD rocket quite interesting. Is this means the 122mm indigenous rocket project for MLRS (RHAN 122) going to be hold ? Are they not showing results as expected ? Or simply realisation that asside indigenous design MLRS rocket, proven design need still to be sources.
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Ananda
The Bunker Group
With all agreement between Indonesia Defense Industry with Turkiye, Frenchie, UAE, US,Czech, Slovakia OEM, something must give also to Russia and China. Is part of Indonesia balancing defense strategy.
Whether all this agreement can come to effective contract, remain to be seen. However some agreement must be made. In Indonesian Air Force thread, I already put DI bring Russian Irkut for potential Yak 130 collaboration. Yesterday Pindad official site put article on agreement with China Norinco for join ATGM development.
This whole agreements part of Indonesian defense industry effort getting licensing collaboration with foreign defense partners that already shown working products.
More likely the agreement will be based on Norinco HJ-12E. Something actually can be said (as with Turkiye or East European), Indonesia looking for more 'economics' solutions.
militaryleak.com
Whether all this agreement can come to effective contract, remain to be seen. However some agreement must be made. In Indonesian Air Force thread, I already put DI bring Russian Irkut for potential Yak 130 collaboration. Yesterday Pindad official site put article on agreement with China Norinco for join ATGM development.
This whole agreements part of Indonesian defense industry effort getting licensing collaboration with foreign defense partners that already shown working products.
More likely the agreement will be based on Norinco HJ-12E. Something actually can be said (as with Turkiye or East European), Indonesia looking for more 'economics' solutions.
Chinese Company Norinco Delivered HJ-12E Anti-Tank Guided Missile to Foreign Customer - MilitaryLeak.COM
Norinco has delivered a batch of anti-tank guided missile (ATGM)Red Arrow HJ-12Eanti-tank missiles to an undisclosed foreign customer.
militaryleak.com
The brochure displayed at Dahana (the explosive manufacturer) says development of the RHAN 122 will continue in order to improve accuracy. I am guessing they want a better CEP radius?
It's possible that part of the deal with MSM is to get parts and expertise to help with that.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
I tend to see on this point. Rumours talk this agreements in Indo Defence, being also use to prop up the 'indegenous' projects including those being tounted before as reverse engineering project.
Personally the way I see it with those agreements, is acknowledgement from Indonesian defense industries. Acknowledgement they are basically (on tech stages) still either as sub contractors or license manufacturer. Not strong enough yet on developing tech based on their own yet.
Congrats — happy for Indonesia to have made a decision to acquire a medium range strike asset that is superior to 122mm MLRS. TNI AD just needs to work on integrating the sense portion, of sense & strike for the Khan missile going forward.
122mm MLRS has a poor CEP & short range, making it limited in usefulness from my point of view.
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Ananda
The Bunker Group
There are two deal that actually Roketsan-Excalibur team up got for TNI-AD. Khan base ITBM 600 MLRS and Hisar based Trisula Med-Long Range SAM. All their system will have to be integrating with Scytalys Network with all different systems from various vendors. As someone that have involved in integrating network systems from few vendors within 'relative' much smaller banking environment, I just can imagining how Scytalys will have herculean task to combine them.
Take in Integrating Air Defence network. Imagine networking this Trisula HISAR-Ratia based system from TNI-AD, with TNI-AU NASAMS Kongsberg-Raytheon based system then later on (as Rumours talk) with TNI-AL MICA-ASTER MBDA-Thales based system. This is just for Medium-Long Range SAM systems. Not including networking with point based system from various SHORAD systems and GCI radars from various vendors.
I'm just not yet imagine how they are going to integrating various MLRS and Ground Based Artilery systems from TNI-AD and Marines. This Turkiye Khan MLRS going to have work with Brazilian MLRS system and Czech-Russian system on 122mm MLRS. Which also has to work out with 155mm and 105mm guns.
Maybe I'm bit sceptics. Just wondering how they are going to integrate all of this coming from various OEM systems into one integrating network.
Designed as a barrage weapon, to saturate an area by firing all its rockets at it. A bit of spread didn't matter much in that context.
It depends on the type of target doesn't it? If it's a fixed target and one large or spread out the poor CEP will not be a factor.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Maybe already posted before here, but this is Pindad's new tactical vehicle. It seems to be an improvement over the Maung.
pindad.com
/data/photo/2022/11/03/63638e354cd18.jpg)
otomotif.kompas.com
PT. Pindad (Persero) - MORINO MV CRUISER
pindad.com
Pindad Morino MV Cruiser, Penerus Maung yang Lebih Keren
PT Pindad (Persero) memamerkan penerus dari Maung dengan nama MV Cruiser, tampil dengan gaya militer dan disediakan model hardtop
otomotif.kompas.com
Ananda
The Bunker Group
Using someone else chasis shown that Pindad automative capabilities still work around as body/frame fabricator. Not much different as coach builders. Not much different then other domestic coach builders that come out with 4x4 Armour Vehicles using Ford F150 chassis.
This is already been done for at least 3 decades, shown Pindad capabilites is not progressing much on that sectors. I suspect this is mostly related to quantity and frequency orders that they have, not justified enough to invest on their own chassis production.
The talk with Czech Tatra on establishing JV, more on production on Chassis from what I gather. Even that I suspect Tatra will demand enough order justification for that kind of Investment. Without enough order frequencies, getting dual bases commercial chassis either from Toyota or Isuzu is the most they can get.
This is already been done for at least 3 decades, shown Pindad capabilites is not progressing much on that sectors. I suspect this is mostly related to quantity and frequency orders that they have, not justified enough to invest on their own chassis production.
The talk with Czech Tatra on establishing JV, more on production on Chassis from what I gather. Even that I suspect Tatra will demand enough order justification for that kind of Investment. Without enough order frequencies, getting dual bases commercial chassis either from Toyota or Isuzu is the most they can get.