The Indonesian Army

[Sandhi Yudha]

Pindad recently presented the ATV, it seems to be a modified Can Am vehicle from Bombardier Recreational Products.

“PRESENTASE PINDAD ALL TERRAIN VEHICLE (ATV)”

pussenif.mil.id

Pindad Mulai Perkenalkan Kendaraan ATV

28 Januari 2021 Menhan Prabowo mengamati kendaraan ATV Pindad Maverick pada Juli 2020 lalu (photo : CNN) Setelah pada bulan Juli 2020 lalu d...

defense-studies.blogspot.com

And here a news report from two weeks ago.

Bupati Jember Beli Pindad Maung Jadi Mobil Dinas

Bupati Jember mengaku membeli Pindad Maung menggunakan uang sendiri, bukan gratifikasi.

m.cnnindonesia.com

Hopefully governors and other officials will follow him.

 

[chiphocks]

Excalibur Army and PT Republic Defensindo
is this the same thing as R-Han 122mm??
what are they up to, upgrades or something??

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Dear @chiphocks ...

Base on that article, the cooperation is on the launcher system, not the rocket. I think it's more likely then the Rocket. After all the RHAN122 already been tested on Marines existing RM-70, so not make sense for another rocket agreement.

Now Pindad it self is being reported already have some talk with Avibras for potential co-op with their MLRS. Perhaps why Excalibur talk with another Domestic Industry on this. This Republic Defesindo is already doing some work maintaining Marines equipment. Pindad more in tune with the Army need, perhaps that's why Marines try other Private Domestic Industry and Work Shop doing maintenance and later on suppliers for their need.

Ananda actually already answered your question in post #960.

So it is not the same as the R-han 122 mm project.

From which i understand the Korps Marinir is in the posession of 12-17 RM-70 (incl 8 of thr newer RM-70 Vampire) and 4 chinese Type 90B. I just wonder why they have such a high demand for self-propelled multiple rocket launchers, that much that local production is necessary.

 

[Ananda]

From which i understand the Korps Marinir is in the posession of 12-17 RM-70 (incl 8 of thr newer RM-70 Vampire) and 4 chinese Type 90B. I just wonder why they have such a high demand for self-propelled multiple rocket launchers, that much that local production is necessary.

The Article from CZDEFENCE shown the co-op is not only for Indonesian market but potential for other export, perhaps in Asian market. Excalibur try to find Partner that have facilities doing assembly as part of Under License ToT. I suspect with Marines development toward 3 Division, it's possible to have 6 battery or 2 battery for each division. If one battery is for 6 MLRS then I suspect at minimum Marines looking for overall 36 RM-70.

One thing for sure, Excalibur will not taking into this arrangement, if they're not sure some demand for their products exists. MinDef already support RHan 122 program Investment. Thus they have to shown those Rocket will be used. RM-70 is clearly what the Marines preference.

Also 122mm rocket can also be used by Army Astros MLRS. So the utilisation of RHan 122 can be used both by Marines and Army MLRS. I'm interest on what the progress between Pindad and Avibras co-op development. That can be more interesting compared to Excalibur MLRS program with Republic Defesindo.

Note for correction:

RHan 122mm so far can only work for Marines MLRS. Army Astros MLRS so far can only work with Avibras own rocket. Pindad has co-op with Avibras to license produce their rockets. However still not clear how the progress and what type of Avibras rocket that's going to be license.

 

[Ananda]

The plan for Indonesia's new capital foresees the eventual population to be in the 3 to 4.5 million people range as people move into the new city. At first the initial population is expected to be some 10,000, growing as more government offices are transferred to the new location. The number of government employees is expected to be low and the majority of the population will be regular folks moving in to try and make a living. That's the same process that caused Jakarta to grow to the current size. There is no plan on sequestering the new capital away from the people. Furthermore, look at the map. The planned new capital will be close to the cities of Samarinda and Balikpapan. From Balikpapan the estimated distance is 77 km. From Samarinda about 100 km. Likely closer if you count the distance from the suburbs instead of the centers. Samarinda has a population of 850,000, Balikpapan 650,000. They are expected to grow along with the new capital. The idea that the Indonesian government is dreaming that the people will stay away from the planned new capital only exist in your mind.

Existence only in My mind ? Ok Tonnyc shown where the movement of capital everywhere that will bring most people and economics activities from old capital to new one ?
Let's see Brasilia seems it's the one that close model to this plan. Do you see most people move from Sao Paulo or Rio to Brasilia ? Do you see movement of substantial Brasilian economies benefits to that area ?

No, everything related to business stay in Sao Paulo or Rio After decades of Brasilia became new capital, there's not much economics benefits to the region at least from what Brazilian government wants.

Do you understand the concept of sarcasm, showing the new Myanmar capital will be reflected on this new capital in Kutai area. It will be emptied city only for limited civil servants. At most in the end after decades will only be like Brasilia that growing into their unplanned urbanization but without bringing the needed economics regional benefits that being talk Before.

More importantly just like Myanmar new capital, it will cost and burden the economies when the country can't afford it. The idea only come from Soekarno mind, and Jokowi's try to capitalize that to the some 'young voters' that doesn't know anything of what Soekarno done as Dictator on the last part of his power.

Moving capital it's costly also for Defense. They will need to build new AB, and other new Defense capabilities. Or are you wanting to left Jakarta Military facilities to move to New Capital. Leaving Indonesian main economics Nexus unguarded ?

No, everything will need to build new one, at the moment when there's more need on the fund, especially after this COVID. Even before COVID, people in Bapenas and Finance Ministry already puzzle on how to find money on this project. They already talk with most Banks in Indonesia and even overseas to find funding and Investment scheme, on something that not affordable for presents Indonesian economics development.

Don't saying I talk this on Myanmar thread. I talk in Myanmar thread on their new empty capital, where their Military Junta stay far away from their people. If you don't like my sarcasm to any government (including Indonesian present administration) that want to build new capital, put it in Indonesian thread, and don't try bring drama to report.

I can also report you as person that clouded by Political disagreement on making judgement.

 

[Ananda]

Perkenalkan Peluncur Roket R-HAN 122B, Kabalitbang Kemhan: Ini Langkah Strategis.

Langkah ini sebagai komitmen Kemhan dalam meningkatkan dan mengembangkan industri pertahanan dalam negeri dan penguatan modernisasi Alutsista

amp.kompas.com

New development on RHan 122b, as this article in Kompas shown MinDef RnD also developing complete RHan 122b MLRS system. Thus related to Czech plan to co-op on RM-70 while locally MinDef try to develop by them selves. I don't know how's it's going to relate on which system they're going to use. I also don't have enough information to say whether MinDef RnD also work with Excalibur on this, or it's completely independent.

 

[tonnyc]

The issue of the relocation of the capital is a domestic political issue, not a defense issue. Start a new Indonesian politics thread if it's so important to you, keeping in mind that this board usually doesn't like purely political issues. I'm moving on.

 

[Ananda]

Please moving on, you're the one that keep bringing the capital movement issue. Seems you are part this administration supporters that have problem with people that doesn't like the idea.

No, it's also related to Defense. Moving capital is related to building new defensive capabilities. Do you think new capital will not need that ? It's Political, Economics, Social and Defense issue. It started with Political standings of this administration, but it will bring multiple facets of problem including Defense issue.

This forum doesn't like to talk politics, don't try to remind me of that. However also don't try to think moving capital is not going related to Defense. If you're only able to think this project from Political stand point, then better you move on.

Now I realize why you're sensitive on the issue, cause you only thought this from one facet of Political standing from this administration. It's not surprising, since the supporters of this project only think that whoever opposed the project, only on Political base. The supporters like you seems doesn't understand that the project will bring additional multi facets of problems. Problems that actually unnecessary, but will be happen due to Political Ego.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

I knew that TNI-AD is in the possession of mobile field kitchens, but this model ive never seen before. Really great that it fits in a C-130.
Photos taken from Lembaga Something Keris...

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

"Komponen Cadangan", are these some kind of reservists?

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=3518575078250810&id=181276675314017

In my opinion a waste of money and totally unlogic to arm them with the newest and most advanced Pindad assault rifle, while some other units are still armed with worn out M16A1 and SS1.

Are these 25.000 aditional men really necessary? Maybe some extra KOSTRAD battalions are more (cost)effective.
Or is this once again a useless project created to get bonuses and earn some pocket money?

 

[Arji]

"Komponen Cadangan", are these some kind of reservists?

From how I understand from reading medias surrounding this policy, it seems like this is our version of US National Guards. This Tirto.id article seems to suggest that Prabowo got the idea from his time in the US.

Prabowo muda pernah bersekolah menengah di The American School dan paham bagaimana pertahanan Amerika Serikat. Amerika Serikat punya komponen cadangan (reserve components) yang sudah terlembagakan secara teratur di semua matra angkatan bersenjata dan di tiap negara bagian (National Guard). Sebagai negara adidaya, Amerika kerap khawatir pada musuh dan potensi ancaman yang bisa muncul kapan saja.

 

[tonnyc]

"Komponen Cadangan", are these some kind of reservists?

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=3518575078250810&id=181276675314017

In my opinion a waste of money and totally unlogic to arm them with the newest and most advanced Pindad assault rifle, while some other units are still armed with worn out M16A1 and SS1.

Are these 25.000 aditional men really necessary? Maybe some extra KOSTRAD battalions are more (cost)effective.
Or is this once again a useless project created to get bonuses and earn some pocket money?

Yes, the basic idea is a reservist component. This is a continuation of Ryacudu's "bela negara".

In a way this is a result of our national myth where we always tell ourselves that independence was won through mass uprising and guerrilla war. Every Indonesian army general since then has always tried to prepare for a massive invasion and occupation of all Indonesia by a foreign power. An occupation that will have to be resisted by all the people, using bamboo spears if necessary and taking years of bloody struggle. There doesn't seem to be much attention paid to what we will do if the OPFOR isn't interested in occupying us or if it's just interested in a single objective rather than all of Indonesia.

To answer your questions, no, it's not necessary. Yes, it's a useless project. As you said, arm the actual military first with the good stuff. When that's done, then fine, start adding reserve components. But frankly, I've learned that we kinda have to give a bone to those old generals. If 25,000 units of rifles are this bone, that's actually cheap as long as they then go away and not disturb the big important stuff. Prabowo, being one of them old generals, isn't immune to this outdated mythology either.

 

[Foodsoldier]

Actually Komcad is different to Program 'Bela Negara' during RR administration. Both program are based on similar legislation, but each of them serve a different purpose in our national defense doctrine. According to the aforementioned bill/legislation (UU PSDN, Undang-Undang Pengelolaan Sumber Daya Nasional no 23 tahun 2019), there are three defense components:

1. Komponen Utama: Active TNI personnel
2. Komponen Cadangan: Reservist (part time TNI personel).
3. Komponen Pendukung: Polri, Civil Servant (PNS), BUMN employee (state owned enterprise), Menwa, Hansip, etc.

Komcad personnel will follow similar recruitment and training curicullum of TNI. They will receive 3 months basic training (Diksar), and for the officer recruitee they will get additional 3 months officer training.

Upon graduation, they will get military rank similar to the full time TNI personnel. In order to differentiate with those full time TNI unit, the Komcad will get .CAD after their rank and their name (i.e. Kopral Jono .CAD). Once graduated, they will be back to their civilian occupation/life, but they will be required to attend 30 days of compulsory refreshment training per-year. Additionaly, in the condition of national crisis (war, pandemic, natural disaster, social unrest) they can be mobilized by the President (and Governor) to support Komponen Utama (TNI).

Komcad will also have their own battalion. The battalion commanders and seniors officers will be appointed from active TNI officers. Majority of the Komcad will be assigned to TNI AD. However, there will be Komcad for TNI AL (Marinir) and TNI AU as well.

Why do we need Komcad?:

1. Zero growth policy for full time TNI (we have too many letkol, kolonel and brigjend). More part time TNI personnel will allow the organization to reduce unrequired position.

2. TNI salary/overhead take the most part of our defense budget. A bigger portion of part-timer will reduce pressure on the budget, and hopefully will improve personnel welfare/kesejahteraan that leads to professionalism.

MoD plans to recruit 125.000 Komcad within the next 5-10 years.

From how I understand from reading medias surrounding this policy, it seems like this is our version of US National Guards. This Tirto.id article seems to suggest that Prabowo got the idea from his time in the US.

 

[OPSSG]

This will be really useful in retaining the services of MAJs to LTCs (and SGTs to WOs) in the TNI (as Komponen Cadangan), as they transition to civilian life

Actually Komcad is different to Program 'Bela Negara' during RR administration. Both program are based on similar legislation, but each of them serve a different purpose in our national defense doctrine.

Thank you for the very impressive post. Really enjoyed reading it and learning from you.

 

[Arji]

Majority of the Komcad will be assigned to TNI AD. However, there will be Komcad for TNI AL (Marinir) and TNI AU as well.

If you don't mind me asking.

Do they assign your branch for you or did you pick it yourself? or Does his/her day occupation matter to the recruiter, like if the guy joining worked as an aircraft mechanic, do they see that and assign him to the air force branch, for example?

 

[Foodsoldier]

Although eligible age for Komcad is between 18-35 yo, MoD wants the first batch of Komcad (approx 15,000 men for Army only) to be within 18-23 yo range. The rationale behind may related to the potential risk of having a more 'mature' reservist (whose potentially already posses certain ideology or political view). A younger reservist will be easier to be 'mold' based on TNI doctrine.

Applicants will need to select their branch (army, marines, or airforce) and come to the recruitment center according to each respected branch.

Whether applicants with specific qualification could be assigned for specific role or not, you may need to wait the policy for the second or third batch (2023). Air Force may start recruiting in the third batch. It's still unclear whether AF will deploy Komcad personnel for a technical, electronics or engineering role. Navy decides Komcad will only goes to Marines.

If you don't mind me asking.

Do they assign your branch for you or did you pick it yourself? or Does his/her day occupation matter to the recruiter, like if the guy joining worked as an aircraft mechanic, do they see that and assign him to the air force branch, for example?

 

[Ananda]

https://tni-au.mil.id/kasau-ipi-bagian-dari-komponen-cadangan-pertahanan-udarakasau-ipi-bagian-dari-komponen-cadangan-pertahanan-udara/

So far seems TNI-AU already talking with Pilot Association to explore commercial Pilots to become their Reserve Components (Komcad). Base on that I do think both TNI-AL and TNI-AU potentially can approach other more specific professional civilian association, since their need are relatively more technical specifics compared toward TNI-AD.

I also read older news talking about some Garuda's pilot become reserve officers in TNI-AU as pilots for their VIP 737's that being donated from Garuda. If not mistaken also some Pilots from Lion Group (as Lion Group also donated some 737).

Will be interesting if TNI-AU getting A330 MRTT, the pilots will be reserved officers from Garuda's or Lion Group pools.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

A little bit late. For some reason the Indonesian government called terrorist organizations like OPM for years as "criminal armed groups" (KKB). But now at last after countless attacks on civilians and airports, the Indonesian government dares to classify them as terrorists.

Pemerintah Resmi Nyatakan KKB Papua sebagai Teroris

Pemerintah resmi menamai kelompok kriminal bersenjata (KKB) di Papua sebagai teroris. Pengumunan ini dilakukan Mahfud MD.

www.viva.co.id

Pemerintah Nyatakan KKB Papua sebagai Teroris!

Mahfud Md menegaskan pemerintah menyatakan KKB sebagai teroris. Dia meminta kepada seluruh aparat keamanan untuk segera menindakan tegas dan terukur kepada KKB.

news.detik.com

Pemerintah Nyatakan KKB Papua Sebagai Organisasi Teroris - Tribunnews.com

Mahfud MD mengumumkan Kelompok Kriminal Bersenjata (KKB) Papua sebagai organisasi teroris.

m.tribunnews.com

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Proof that those evil Indonesians are bombing poor villagers.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1394517216163291138

Anyway, those OPM-guys have some amazing photo-editing skills. Here is their original post from 2019.

https://www.facebook.com/tpnpbkodapdeiyai/posts/356306064978131

Another hoax-report corrected.

Permintaan Maaf dan Pencabutan Berita – Suara Papua

Suara Papua Permintaan Maaf dan Pencabutan Berita

suarapapua.com

 

[Ananda]

Anyway, those OPM-guys have some amazing photo-editing skills. Here is their original post from 2019.

It's the age of multi social media. Compared to Israel (as example), what image fighting in social media that we face now over West Papua is still much less compared what they face over Palestine. TNI also didn't have good historical track record on handling Indigenous Papuan especially with mountain tribes.

TNI and infact the government has more better interaction with Papuan Coastal tribes. Once when I have business visit to Sorong, there's some Papuan protesting in the street. I ask my Bank's Papuan staff that accompany us, who they are. He said, those are guys from mountain tribes. He added most of us from coastal tribes has employment and business, the Mountains tribes have nothing. There's also much discrepancies on living standard between coastal tribes and mountain tribes.

Most of those that become involved as armed groups, are from Mountains tribes. The government considered by the mountain tribes people, shown much preference toward people in coastal area whether Indigenous Papuan coastal tribes or migrants from others islands.

There's image issue gap in West Papua. They're still have very tribal thinking. To be honest eventough the Bureaucracy in West Papua mostly already handle by Indigenous Papuan, but many coming from Coastal people. The mountain tribes fell left out big times. That's the homework that need to be done.