The Indonesian Army

[Feanor]

Ahh...the 122mm rockets being developed according to Pindad sources on local media (sorry can't find on-line articles), is being design addaptable with existing Grads MLRS. This's matter on getting Domestic self suffcients on rockets.
Besides Pindad now trying to manufactured scaled down Grads that can be mounted on Anoa's.

So an attempt to create domestic defense industry?

 

[Abraham Gubler]

So an attempt to create domestic defense industry?

They have one already: the N in CN-235 standards for Indonesia (well an Indonesian company). The 70mm MRL provides a bombardment capability for special forces. It is mounted on a very small ATV compared to the Grad MRL mounted on a 3 tonne truck.

 

[Ananda]

So an attempt to create domestic defense industry?

They have one already: the N in CN-235 standards for Indonesia (well an Indonesian company). The 70mm MRL provides a bombardment capability for special forces. It is mounted on a very small ATV compared to the Grad MRL mounted on a 3 tonne truck.

Feanor, just like Abraham said, it's not an attempt to create domestic defense industry, but more to improved domestic defence industry.
With Pindad we actually already self sufficient on small calibre weapons even up to 81 mm mortar. Now Pindad wants to developed larger calibre including 105 mm (with Oto Mellara) and this 122 mm rockets.

Previously (in former adminstrations), there's some buying on small calibre weapons by Police and Special Forces, but lately current administrations already stated that anything simmilar that already produced locally is 'forbidden' to sources it internationally.
Also any new procurements has to involved tot or other sub contracts to local industry.

 

[Feanor]

The 70mm MRL provides a bombardment capability for special forces. It is mounted on a very small ATV compared to the Grad MRL mounted on a 3 tonne truck.

This answers my original question. Thank you.

 

[Ananda]

The 70 mm based on US FFAR (folding Fin rockets) while the 122 mm based on Lapan's experimental D-230. However if you see the picture, it has many resemblences to Grads standard.

 

[Ananda]

Fom Indo-defence

Right now, I try to upload some of the pictures from http//www.defensestudies.blogspot.com. Personally I've also some photo's from Indo-defense, however still have difficulty downloading from my camera. Will try to do it another time.

The two photo's that being uploaded:
1. MLRS R-Han 122 for 122mm rocket pototype being discussed on earlier posts. Still a rather bit crude on western standard, however it's being noted in Indo-defence pindad will developed productions versions with Tantra (that's also developing Grad's launch vehicles).
2. Mock-up on DI/IAe concept for Attack Helicopters. Basically it's NBO-105 as based, being developed with tandem cockpit.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Right now, I try to upload some of the pictures from http//www.defensestudies.blogspot.com. Personally I've also some photo's from Indo-defense, however still have difficulty downloading from my camera. Will try to do it another time.

The two photo's that being uploaded:
1. MLRS R-Han 122 for 122mm rocket pototype being discussed on earlier posts. Still a rather bit crude on western standard, however it's being noted in Indo-defence pindad will developed productions versions with Tantra (that's also developing Grad's launch vehicles).
2. Mock-up on DI/IAe concept for Attack Helicopters. Basically it's NBO-105 as based, being developed with tandem cockpit.

That attack helicopter looks terrible......its better to arm NBO-105s and NBell-412s like in the past. Together with the Mi-35Ps we dont need something ugly like that model. Even the concepts of the NH-2 and NH-5 in the 90's are looking better. IPTN dont even have money to launch the N219 or an improved/updated version of the CN235, so this attackchopper project will stay a fantasy....

 

[Feanor]

How ugly or attractive a helicopter happens to be has nothing to do with it's capabilities. I happen to agree in regards to the Mi-35 as being a better option (esp. given that refurbs can be had at bargain bin prices, and spares will rarely be an issue) but otherwise you'd need to know a lot more about the proposed new helo to make that claim.

 

[pasukangeraktjepat]

From Jane's
http://www4.janes.com/subscribe/jdw...din82443.htm@current&Prod_Name=JDW&QueryText=

Doosan DST, a South Korean company, has been awarded a contract by the Indonesian Ministry of Defence (MoD) to supply the K-21 tracked infantry fighting vehicle (IFV) to the Indonesian Army (Tentara Nasional Indonesia Angkatan Darat, TNI-AD), an industry source confirmed to Jane's on 12 November.

The contract is worth USD70 million and will see Doosan DST (formerly part of Doosan Infracore) supply 22 IFV units during the next three years. The deal was finalised about one week ago following negotiations between the Indonesian MoD and Daewoo International, a Seoul-based trading company acting on behalf of Doosan DST.

The contract - understood by Jane's to have been sourced through credit made available to Indonesia by the Export-Import Bank of Korea - is the first export order of the K-21, although the Republic of Korea Army has ordered nearly 500 units.

Under the agreement, a European company will co-develop, along with Doosan DST, the turret system to be supplied on the K-21s delivered to the TNI-AD.

The identity of the European company was not revealed, although Jane's notes that Finmeccanica subsidiary OTO Melara signed a marketing and production agreement with Doosan Infracore in June 2008 to undertake "joint commercialisation" of turrets, including the Oto Melara 105 mm HitFact anti-tank turret

I read this news for the first time in a thread in Indonesian military internet forum, Military section of Kaskus by @kenyot9 .Like Indonesian Marine's BMP-3, K-21 have an amphibious capability.
After the Korean IFV, it was rumoured that TNI-AD will start to buy/build a MBT.

 

[pasukangeraktjepat]

By the way contrary to Jane's ,another source from a defense blog claim that Doosan will export 22 6x6 wheeled armored vehicles to Indonesian Army, probably a Black Fox. We still wait for a confirmation from Indonesian DoD.

http://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2010/11/daewoo-international-to-export-armored.html

Daewoo International to export military wheeled armored vehicles 6x6 to Indonesia Army worth of 70 million dollars.

Indonesian Defense Ministry and Daewoo International recently signed agreement and came into effect 11 days to start production this month.

Wheeled armored vehicles 6 x6 is the first time to export to overseas.

Daewoo equipped 22 units of armored with a 90mm turret, split 11 units completely knock down (CKD), and 11 unit in parts assembly (SKD), Indonesia announced that it will lead to the Army by end of 2013.

Production and 90mm armored turret assembly headed by the Doosan DST, SKD volume manufacturing technology transfer contract with the armored vehicles in Indonesia is planning to assemble in the arsenal

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

From Jane's
http://www4.janes.com/subscribe/jdw...din82443.htm@current&Prod_Name=JDW&QueryText=

I read this news for the first time in a thread in Indonesian military internet forum, Military section of Kaskus by @kenyot9 .Like Indonesian Marine's BMP-3, K-21 have an amphibious capability.
After the Korean IFV, it was rumoured that TNI-AD will start to buy/build a MBT.

Thanks for the news. I've visited K-21 Infantry Fighting Vehicle | Military-Today.com
Nice piece of toy....

 

[Ananda]

That attack helicopter looks terrible......its better to arm NBO-105s and NBell-412s like in the past. Together with the Mi-35Ps we dont need something ugly like that model. Even the concepts of the NH-2 and NH-5 in the 90's are looking better. IPTN dont even have money to launch the N219 or an improved/updated version of the CN235, so this attackchopper project will stay a fantasy....

Well It's still a concept. But consider this, MI24/MI35 shares airframe based with MI 8 /MI 17. AH-1 Cobra basically start as modifications of UH 1. South African Rooikat was developed from Denel Atlas in which is Aerospatialle Puma. Bo-105 already being used extensively by Army, Navy, and even Police. Claim from Army Aviators that BO-105 basically a very manuvarable choopers.

Now the Army used BO-105 basically as combat scout. Thus the concept to improved BO-105 airframes as light gun ship will not be a far fetched. Besides it's make sense from Logistical point of view. Whether DI will get enough support to lauch this concept, well it's different matter.
Then I support Feanor, Ugliness from a combat machines is not comparible with the effectiveness. Well look at OV-10, it's an UGLY piece of flying machines...but hey it's one of the best COIN fighters ever.

 

[Ananda]

By the way contrary to Jane's ,another source from a defense blog claim that Doosan will export 22 6x6 wheeled armored vehicles to Indonesian Army, probably a Black Fox. We still wait for a confirmation from Indonesian DoD.

DEFENSE STUDIES: Daewoo International to Export Armored Vehicles to the Indonesian Army

Well I tend to agree with 6x6 and not K-21. Basically the 6x6 Black Fox is going to be modified by Pindad as their 90 mm Armoured Canon Vehicles.
However from Indodefence, Pindad do have ambitions for next projects on IFV. However which partner is going to choose that's not being clear. Chechs Tatra also already in talk with Pindad for possible IFV projects.

 

[STURM]

another source from a defense blog claim that Doosan will export 22 6x6 wheeled armored vehicles to Indonesian Army, probably a Black Fox. We still wait for a confirmation from Indonesian DoD.

Why 6x6's from S.Korea when Pindad already produces the Anoa?

 

[Ananda]

Why 6x6's from S.Korea when Pindad already produces the Anoa?

Logically you're right that what should be gain from doosan is K-21 IFV. However if they're getting Black Fox 6x6 perhaps use that as based for 90 mm Armoured vehicles. Perhaps the design of 90 mm Anoa (not all anoa but just the 90 mm canon versions) not really satisfactory yet in such they need another proven design to be based on.

Well have to be seen which one that really being ordered from doosan. K-21 or Black Fox 6x6. If they already satisfied with 90 mm version of anoa, then perhaps they move to next stage in which IFV.

 

[Australian.Jack]

Until Indonesia rids itself of the rampant corruption, Indonesia will never be a true power in the region. Thats just my opinion.

 

[Ananda]

Additional MI-17

From Seputar Indonesia (Sindo) Dailly with Google Translate:

SEMARANG - 31/Attack Squadron of the Army Aviation Center, based in Semarang Ahmad Yani Lanumad complex will get an additional six MI-17 helicopters.

Expected with the addition of these defense equipment is able to improve 31/Attack Squadron as the unit of the Army air combat. "The Plann, early next year an additional helicopter batch will be fullfiled," said Commander of the Army Aviation Center (And Puspenerbad) Brigjend TNI Nabris Haska on the sidelines of the transfer of function 31 Squadron Commander Lieutenant Colonel Lieutenant Colonel CPN Suprapto to Jatmiko yesterday.

With this transfered the Army Attack Sq 31 will have 12 Mi-17 and 5 MI-35 from current 6 MI-17 and 5 MI-25. Whether this will create another sq for the Army (assigning MI-35 and MI-17 to seperate sq), remain to be seen. However from other sources previously the Army also stated that they plan to acquiared another 3 MI-35 from current 5 Helicopters.

From my Book, This show the Army air support capabilities for COIN is continue increasing. Why the need of Super Tucano ??? Well what do I Know

 

[SASWanabe]

has anyone heard anything about indonesia and BrahMos missiles? i understand that the indians are trying to sell them

 

[Ananda]

has anyone heard anything about indonesia and BrahMos missiles? i understand that the indians are trying to sell them

They still do. At the Indo-Defence last month, the Indian booth still activelly promoted Brahmos. However in the same time the Russian promote Yakhont in which few of them on the trial with one of the Van Speijk Frigates.

Somehow it seems to me Indian alone that try hard/active poromoting Brahmo, while the other Partner seems comfortable being pasive on Brahmo promotions.

 

[idjondjambi]

They still do. At the Indo-Defence last month, the Indian booth still activelly promoted Brahmos. However in the same time the Russian promote Yakhont in which few of them on the trial with one of the Van Speijk Frigates.

Somehow it seems to me Indian alone that try hard/active poromoting Brahmo, while the other Partner seems comfortable being pasive on Brahmo promotions.

i think indonesia have willing to aquired brahmoss

since brahmos now can be lanuched from sukhoi...

BrahMos Aerospace, an Indo-Russian joint venture, has completed the work on aerial and underwater versions of a supersonic cruise missile, but the test-fire of the two variants is held up for the time being in the absence of platforms for trials. The test-fire of underwater version of the missile
will take place early next year while the trial of air-borne variant is likely to be held in 2012, BrahMos Aerospace said.

Alexander Leonov, Director General of NPO Mashinostroyenia which is the Russian partner of the joint venture, said work on both aerial and submarine versions of the missile has been completed and they are ready for trial.

He said BrahMos scientists are now waiting for the Su-30MKI aircraft to be provided by Indian Air Force to act as a platform for testing the aerial version while a specially designed submerged vehicle will be used for trial of the submarine version.

In the absence of a specially designed submarine to conduct the test, a submerged platform will be used for carrying out the trial of underwater version of the missile.

Marketing Director of Brahmos Praveen Pathak said IAF has already identified two Sukhoi 30 fighter jets for testing the aerial version, which is set to take place in 2012. He said induction of the missile into the IAF is likely to begin in 2013.

"As per our estimate, we will be able to complete by end of 2012 all the development trials of airbrone version and induction should start by 2013," Pathak told PTI.

Leonov said Indian Navy only wants to integrate the missile on Indian manufactured submarines, which is why test has to be carried out from a specially designed submerged vehicle.

"As far as I know the submarines where the missiles are likely to be integrated will be manufactured in India. The missile is ready for installations," he said.