The Indonesian Army

[koxinga]

Photo seems to show the last Panser of the first production run (152).

As for the numbers below, how realistic is that? I get the impression that the journal made an error.

Presiden minta Pindad produksi rantis varian baru - AntaraNews.com

Bandung (ANTARA News) - Presiden Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono meminta PT Pindad untuk memproduksi kendaraan taktis (rantis) varian baru untuk type 3/4 ton 4x4 untuk memenuhi kebutuhan TNI dan Polri.

"Kendaraan taktis type baru seperti ini akan dibutuhkan, saya minta dalam dua bulan ke depan Pindad sudah bisa memberikan paparan prototipe-nya," kata Presiden Yudhoyono disela peninjauan panser produksi Pindad di halaman hanggar PTDI di Bandung, Rabu.

Presiden yang melakukan peninjauan bersama sejumlah Menteri Kabinet Indonesia Bersatu, Panglima TNI, Kapolri, Gubernur Jabar dan sejumlah pejabat BUMN Strategis itu cukup lama mengamati dan bertanya spesifikasi dari prototype panser Rantis 3/4 ton 4x4 yang dipajangkan di sana.

Ia meminta Dirut PT Pindad Adik Aviantono Sudarsono untuk memberikan paparan kesiapan dan proses produksi panser rantis varian terbaru itu pada kunjungannya ke PT Pindad yang Desember 2011 mendatang.

Sementara itu Direktur PT Pindad, Adik Aviantono Sudarsono menyebutkan, panser rantis 3/4 ton 4x4 tersebut baru diproduksi satu unit oleh PT Pindad dengan kerjasama dengan pabrikan Renault dari Prancis.

"Panser itu sasis dan mesinnya dari Renault, sedangkan body dan komponen lainnya dibuat sendiri PT Pindad. Saat ini baru satu unit, namun pemesannya sudah ratusan," kata Adik Aviantono.

Panser Rantis dengan empat ban tersebut merupakan kendaraan taktis yang diperuntukan di medan yang tidak terlalu berat. Kendaraan militer dengan kapasitas mesin 4.700 CC tersebut memiliki mobilitas yang tinggi serta lincah.

"Kendaraan itu cocok untuk TNI AD, AU atau kepolisian, mobilitasnya tinggi dan pas untuk patroli di airport dan operasi darat. Namun belum amfibi," kata Adik.

Ia mengakui, untuk memproduksi panser rantis varian baru itu, PTDI tidak terlalu sulit. Pasalnya merupakan varian turunan dari Paner Anoa yang selama ini diproduksi oleh perusahaan itu.

"Rantis 3/4 ton itu turunan dari Panser Anoa, tidak akan terlalu terkendala dalam pengembangannya," katanya.

Tampilan Rantis 3/4 ton 4x4 tersebut lebih garang, tangguh dan lebar. Spesifikasinya lebih besar dari kendaraan taktis 4x4 yang ada saat ini. Menurut Adik, saat ini masih dalam pengembangan, dan bila tidak ada halangan rantis varian baru produk Pindad itu sudah bisa dituntaskan pada 2014.

Sementara itu, dalam program revitasasi alutsista mendapat sejumlah pesanan kendaraan tempur dan kendaraan taktis, disamping persenjataan dan amunisi.

Untuk kendaraan tempur dan taktis, PT Pindad mendapat pesanan produksi Panser Anoa sebanyak 55 unit, Panser 5 ton 330 unit, Panser 2,6 ton 660 unit dan tank 52 unit.

Selain memenuhi kebutuhan kendaraan tempur dan taktis, Pindad juga mendapatkan pesanan Panser Anoa dari Malaysia.

Sementara itu Menteri Pertahanan, Purnomo Yusgiantoro mengharapkan Pindad tetap eksis dan mengembangkan produk dan varian baru dari kendaraan tempur dan taktis yang ada saat ini sehingga bisa bersaing di pasar global.

"Pindad harus menjadi perusahaan dengan produk berkelas dunia, dimana produknya seperti Panser Anoa dan yang lainnya menjadi bagian dari berbagai operasi internasional," kata Menteri Pertahanan menambahkan.

 

[DavidDCM]

I can't imagine they're talking of armoured vehicles there. So just replace 'panser' with 'truk' and I think you are about right.

 

[Ananda]

It's not an Armored Carriers/Panser. As usual some Journalist does not know the different between APC and Multipurpose Vehicle. If you see the photo's attached, what Pindad talking is a Multipurpose Vehicle based on Renault Sherpa. Just like their Panser/APC Anoa based on Renault VAB, their propose Multipurpose Vehicle will also based on Renault Product.

Will be interesting though to see what they are talking with 5 ton Panser.

 

[DavidDCM]

Even for Sherpas the number would be too high. Article mentions "program revitasasi alutsista" one paragraph above, so I suppose it is just about refurbishing some older vehicles. The 55 Anoas stand out of that, though.

 

[koxinga]

Even for Sherpas the number would be too high. Article mentions "program revitasasi alutsista" one paragraph above, so I suppose it is just about refurbishing some older vehicles. The 55 Anoas stand out of that, though.

The "Panser 2,6 ton" may refer to the Maesa PT44 high mobility truck (Kendaraan Taktis)

As for "Panser 5 ton ", I reckon it could be a VBL class vehicle which there have been several prototypes, from IAe to Pindad or that new one recently.

 

[DavidDCM]

Yes, but 330 Sherpas would be massive. TNI wants it as recon vehicle (panser intai), they do not need 330 of them.
And even without armour the Sherpa already weighs 5 tons. With armour it comes at ~7 tons.

The 2.6 ton "panser" could indeed be the Maesa truck, but isn't PT-44/Pacific Technolgy a separate company from PT.Pindad?

 

[koxinga]

Yes, but 330 Sherpas would be massive. TNI wants it as recon vehicle (panser intai), they do not need 330 of them.
And even without armour the Sherpa already weighs 5 tons. With armour it comes at ~7 tons.

The 2.6 ton "panser" could indeed be the Maesa truck, but isn't PT-44/Pacific Technolgy a separate company from PT.Pindad?

I didn't say Sherpas but VBL class. That would fit the recon mission. IAe, PT. Sentra Surya Ekajaya and Pindad have their own models (e.g DMV-30A, P2 Kommando and RPP-M, ).

The Sherpas are a newer development. My guess are that these are to be deployed in limited quantities for UN missions overseas such as Lebanon.

As for Pacific Technology, not sure. Perhaps Indonesia members could enlighten us.

 

[DavidDCM]

You may be right, but I still expect non-armoured vehicles. 330 is just too high a number. No matter if it's Sherpa or a homebrew vehicle. The R&D department of the army tested a 5-ton truck in June, maybe now they have decided to buy it: Selamat Datang di Website Dislitbangad.

 

[Ananda]

Yes, but 330 Sherpas would be massive. TNI wants it as recon vehicle (panser intai), they do not need 330 of them.
And even without armour the Sherpa already weighs 5 tons. With armour it comes at ~7 tons.

The 2.6 ton "panser" could indeed be the Maesa truck, but isn't PT-44/Pacific Technolgy a separate company from PT.Pindad?

The 2.6 ton "panser" could be this 4x4 prototype that's being evaluated by the Army (attached the Picture from Pos Kota). Basically it's a VBL class. 330 Sherpas is big number, but if Pindad already manufactured 150+ VAB derived armoured carriers, build 330 Sherpa's will not out of reach.

Btw; Pacific Technology, is a private company and not part of Pindad.

 

[DavidDCM]

Thank you for clarifying on the issue of Pacific Technology and Pindad.

Pindad sure could produce 330 Sherpas, but I simply think there is no requirement from TNI for so many vehicles.

Btw, the Rantis prototype, do you know if it is armoured or not?

 

[Ananda]

Pindad sure could produce 330 Sherpas, but I simply think there is no requirement from TNI for so many vehicles.

Btw, the Rantis prototype, do you know if it is armoured or not?

Depends if they want to replace all their old Saracen, Scout etc, plus if they intended to improved some of their Infantry battalions to be a more mobile infantry battalions. After all those 150+ VAB based Anoa can't replaced all their old armored vehicles.

The rantis prototype according to the article is lightly armored, and intended to replaced and standardized TNI SUV/4x4. The way I see it the 2.6 tons Armored intended to provide VBL types and SUV+ capabilities. Still have to wait and see, the final prototype.

This what they say in the article:

“Selain dari personel TNI juga disertakan mitra industri untuk mendukung kegiatan pengerjaan teknis yaitu : PT. AUTOCAR, PT. Pindad, PT. Yudistira, PT. Petrodrill, PT. Gajah Tunggal, PT. Krakatau Steel, PT. Pilar Mas Kursindo, PT. Indo Pulley Perkasa dan PT. Alam Indomesin Utama. Tampilan Rantis 4 x 4 tetap mengacu pada filosofi Hummvee USA, karena terbukti cukup tangguh, stabil dan flexible,” jelas Kolonel Kav Rihananto.

In short this 'rantis' is based on collaboration design from several TNI-AD suppliers. For me it's seems all the local design that intended to give the Army with VBL/Humvee/SUV+ class vehicle is not satisfactory enough, thus the Army intended for them to collaborate to give the Army more acceptable design. This prototype is the beginning.

 

[DavidDCM]

I have now found and read the article, thanks for pointing me to it. But unfortunately it did not contain much information. It lumped together too many different vehicels as if they all were in the same class. I don't think the journalist had much knowledge about military vehicles. Also, I didn't see any info that the Rantis prototype is armoured. I think the "terbukti cukup tangguh" refers to the general sturdiness of such vehicles, not to armour.

 

[Ananda]

Also, I didn't see any info that the Rantis prototype is armoured. I think the "terbukti cukup tangguh" refers to the general sturdiness of such vehicles, not to armour.

Ahhh yes. I forgot, been quite some time after reading that article. I remembered the mentioned of light armored I've found it on local forum thus makes it 'questionable' . Sorry about that.

However if i'm not mistaken that forum mentioned about some info they got from Pindad that they (Pindad) in process trying on aluminum-ceramic-steel sandwiched as the skin of their prototype. but again it's an info in local forum, and can't be confirmed up until now.

 

[koxinga]

Several articles here from the usual suspect.

Yet again, the 2014 date features prominently with major activities in the 2012 - 2014 time frame. It would coincide with the increase in the Indonesia defence budget as well.

DEFENSE STUDIES: PT Pindad Bidik Peluang Pasar Rp 13,6 Triliun untuk 2010-2014

 

[Ananda]

Found this on Local Forum Kaskus. Seems the local forum already blazing with speculations on Local build 4x4 called 'Garda' that previous article from Pos Kota mentioned.

This prototype supposed to be developed by Pindad, however seems there's still disagreement between Pindad with TNI-AD on the design in which Pindad still prefer their own lighter weight (and less costly design) based on Ford Chassis.

Also included pictures of Locally design MLRS (for 122 mm rockets), that being displayed to President SBY during ceremony of DI and EADS agreement for production of C-295.

Additional Note by 11/11/11:
Seems Pindad and the Army already agree on what design they will choose for Tactical Vehicle 4x4 (acronym 'Rantis' in here). Not much being disclosed what the Prototype will be choose, but it could be this 'Garda' (photo attached) or Renault ' Sherpa' derivatives.

All the Minister of Defense says that it will be on 'Hummer' class and will involve join production : http://www.detiknews.com/read/2011/11/10/171345/1764849/10/?992204topnews

Sorry the link in Bahasa.

 

[DavidDCM]

Wait and see. Maybe I shall be proven wrong:

TNI AD dapat Rp14 triliun pengadaan alutsista - AntaraNews.com

Summary: The Indonesian defence minister said the army was granted ~1.5 billion USD by the president for the purchase of weapon systems until 2014. The army mainly eyes for second hand systems from European countries as they are willing to sell their weapon systems at a reduced price tag due to the economic situation.
Two things named are 8 Apache helicopters and up to 100 main battle tanks.

 

[koxinga]

hmm.. I was about to post the same thing.

Is the 14 trillion IDR/~1.5 billion USD part of the FY2012 64.4 trillion / 7.5 billion USD budget or a separate allocation?

To be correct,the article mentioned that they were looking for 44 MBTs, but were offered 100 for the same price.

Yes, there are too much specifics to discount outright, although it is interesting that they are considering used Apaches. I thought TNI-AD would have ordered additional Mil-35s. And where would those Apaches come from? The dutch are not selling theirs.

 

[DavidDCM]

Could be Greece. But I am not aware either of Greek plans to sell its Apaches.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Lets wait and see until the contracts are signed, a lot of things stay unclear in such articles, sometimes its based on wishes/unmature plans.
I dont expect Greece will sell their AH-64, they still see Turkey as a threat.

Besides that, i dont think the US will agree with the sale of such capable combat helicopter to RI, even if its second hand AH-64As. Also, we already have the Mi-35P, small amounts of lots of different types of the same class of equipment makes the armed forces really unefficient.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Found this on Local Forum Kaskus. Seems the local forum already blazing with speculations on Local build 4x4 called 'Garda' that previous article from Pos Kota mentioned.

This prototype supposed to be developed by Pindad, however seems there's still disagreement between Pindad with TNI-AD on the design in which Pindad still prefer their own lighter weight (and less costly design) based on Ford Chassis.

Also included pictures of Locally design MLRS (for 122 mm rockets), that being displayed to President SBY during ceremony of DI and EADS agreement for production of C-295.

Additional Note by 11/11/11:
Seems Pindad and the Army already agree on what design they will choose for Tactical Vehicle 4x4 (acronym 'Rantis' in here). Not much being disclosed what the Prototype will be choose, but it could be this 'Garda' (photo attached) or Renault ' Sherpa' derivatives.

All the Minister of Defense says that it will be on 'Hummer' class and will involve join production : detikNews : Indonesia Produksi 'Hummer' di Pindad

Sorry the link in Bahasa.

This one looks better.
(Taken from Kompas.com)