Su-34 Fullback Capability

[Firehorse]

Those MiG-23 are probably poorly maintained and I highly doubt whether they'll get in the air even if there are pilots.

The one I underlined is the keyword! It doesn't mean 100% certainty! Once placed in storage, there is very little maintanance involved.
There are plenty of retired MiG-27-qualified pilots that can be recalled to instruct other former & current MiG-21/29/25/31 as well as Su-17/22/24/25/27/30 pilots to fly them, besides brand new pilots, -if many of the models listed above are lost, or if additional fighters are needed. Perhaps the test pilots could be utilized for the same instructor duty.

As of 2001, the RFAF had

1164 fighters in storage, 575
attack planes in active service, 166 MiG-27
attack planes in storage,..

As Indians & Russians have shown, The MiG-27 Upgrade is not impossible.

..Sri Lanka navy military aircraft park ..consists of four modernized MiG-27.

More power for MiG-27ML

 

[Salty Dog]

The one I underlined is the keyword! It doesn't mean 100% certainty! Once placed in storage, there is very little maintanance involved.
There are plenty of retired MiG-27-qualified pilots that can be recalled to instruct other former & current MiG-21/29/25/31 as well as Su-17/22/24/25/27/30 pilots to fly them, besides brand new pilots, -if many of the models listed above are lost, or if additional fighters are needed. Perhaps the test pilots could be utilized for the same instructor duty.

As of 2001, the RFAF had

As Indians & Russians have shown, The MiG-27 Upgrade is not impossible.

More power for MiG-27ML

Sorry mate, the Mig-27 has about the same chance of flying again with the Russians as the F-14 has with the US.

Russia is committed to operating the Su-34, no way they will go back to the Mig-27.

 

[swerve]

...Once placed in storage, there is very little maintanance involved.
There are plenty of retired MiG-27-qualified pilots that can be recalled ...

1) Stored aircraft do need maintenance, or they deteriorate, even if under cover. The Pakistanis were reportedly surprised at the good condition of the Mirages they bought from Libya a few years ago, because they assumed (& they know a lot about these things, having bought many old, stored for some time, aircraft) they'd have deteriorated in storage. They were in good condition because the Libyans had kept them under cover, weather protected (& in a far more benign climate for aircraft storage than Russia), with regular maintenance, including running the engines regularly. Considering the maintenance levels of front-line RuAF aircraft, it is unlikely, to say the least, that stored MiG-27s get such a high level of care. Photographs of stored older RuAF aircraft show that many are parked outside, with little if any weather shielding. Putting an aircraft stored in such conditions back into service after a few years is a major restoration project.

If you have any evidence that stored MiG-23s & MiG-27s are kept in better conditions, please share it with us.

2) Retired pilots lose their qualifications very soon. Someone who has not flown for 10 years is not qualified. It itsn't like riding a bike. Those pilots, as I've previously said, would require extensive retraining to re-qualify.

3) As I keep saying, and you keep ignoring (why do you do this?), the Russian air force does not have enough qualified pilots to fly its theoretically front-line aircraft. Would you ground Su-27s & MiG-29s in order to put their pilots in MiG-27s?

...Sri Lanka navy military aircraft park ..consists of four modernized MiG-27.....

Entered service in 2000, after upgrading. Bought as they were being retired. Not relevant to the condition of ex-RuAF MiGs which have been grounded for a decade. You keep doing this - digging up references to things which happened too long ago to be relevant. Again, why? What's so hard about checking dates?

 

[baranek]

It seems that mig-27s are unlikely to return to service. Below some pictures showing that they're scrapped accordingly.

http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=01np2.jpg
http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=201am4.jpg
http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20ul5.jpg

 

[Firehorse]

1) Stored aircraft do need maintenance, or they deteriorate, even if under cover. The Pakistanis were reportedly surprised at the good condition of the Mirages they bought from Libya a few years ago, because they assumed (& they know a lot about these things, having bought many old, stored for some time, aircraft) they'd have deteriorated in storage. They were in good condition because the Libyans had kept them under cover, weather protected (& in a far more benign climate for aircraft storage than Russia), with regular maintenance, including running the engines regularly. Considering the maintenance levels of front-line RuAF aircraft, it is unlikely, to say the least, that stored MiG-27s get such a high level of care. Photographs of stored older RuAF aircraft show that many are parked outside, with little if any weather shielding. Putting an aircraft stored in such conditions back into service after a few years is a major restoration project.
If you have any evidence that stored MiG-23s & MiG-27s are kept in better conditions, please share it with us.
2) Retired pilots lose their qualifications very soon. Someone who has not flown for 10 years is not qualified. It itsn't like riding a bike. Those pilots, as I've previously said, would require extensive retraining to re-qualify.
3) As I keep saying, and you keep ignoring (why do you do this?), the Russian air force does not have enough qualified pilots to fly its theoretically front-line aircraft. Would you ground Su-27s & MiG-29s in order to put their pilots in MiG-27s?
Entered service in 2000, after upgrading. Bought as they were being retired. Not relevant to the condition of ex-RuAF MiGs which have been grounded for a decade. You keep doing this - digging up references to things which happened too long ago to be relevant. Again, why? What's so hard about checking dates?

Don't make the mistake of applying Western thinking & standards to Russia! One USAF test pilot, who has flown Russian fighters, admitted in a doc. film (don't remember the name) that Russian military planes are built like tanks/heavy trucks, and Western ones like fine watches. Under certain conditions, some older fighters now in storage (not all of them are scrapped) may be pressed into service, even if their paint has faded- inside they are still functional. Even if that means that they'll fly again only few times- theirs isn't a throw-away society!
I'm not going to discuss MiG-27s on this Su-34 tread anymore- but I can agree to disagree!

Units armed with such aircraft can be used in the so-called pendulum operations, when a Russian air force unit bombs a terrorist base in Central Asia today, delivers a strike at a missile base in Europe the next day, and three days later flies to the Indian Ocean to support a combined group of the Russian Northern, Pacific and Black Sea fleets, with the flights made from a base within the Russian Federation.

 

[Haavarla]

An update on the Su-34 production:

The 45tonn aircraft proved to be too heavy for carrier operation, but in the future it will have new engines. Possible the Article 117-S engine or a newer variant.

To date they have only produced 11 Su-34's.
Including the Serial nr. 10V-0 and 10V-3 as a static tests fuselage.

Serial nr. 10V-1(early Su-27UB) Side nr 42. who first flight April 13 1990.

Serial nr. 10V-2, side nr 43. First flight December 18 1993

Serial nr. 10V-4(01-01) First preproduction. side nr 44. First fittet with mission system.
First flight Dec 26 1996.

Serial nr. 10V-5(01-02) side nr 45. First flown Dec 28 1994.

Serial nr. 10V-6(01-03) side nr 46. First flight Dec 27 1997.

Serial nr. 10V-7(01-04) side nr 47. First flight Dec 22 2000.

Serial nr. 10V-8(01-05) side nr 48. First flight Dec 20 2003.

Serial nr. 02-01 1'st prod. Side nr 01. First flight Oct 12 2006.

Serial nr. 02-02 2'nd prod. Side nr 02. First flight, Aug 03 2007.

That's it.
In 2008 Sukhio announced the start of 2'nd stage production.
Witch will include new mission systems and armament. Possible new Engines and weight reduction too.
NAPO will deliver 18 aircraft. 8-10 aircraft by 2010.
All the other production statement made buy officials is uncomfirmed..

 

[nevidimka]

What do you mean the 45 ton plane is too heavy for carrier operation. Is there attempts to make it a carrier borne aviation?

 

[Feanor]

8-10 aircraft by 2010? I recall original plans for having ~12-24 aircraft by 2010. Are any aircraft going to be delivered this year? I mean "serial production" started 2 years ago, and earlier we were told that 10 aircraft are undergoing assembly right now. They're not going to be delivered until 2010? I knew NAPO was in pretty bad shape, but they did manage to get Su-24M2 modernizations done. I figured they should be able to do at least low rate production.

 

[Haavarla]

What do you mean the 45 ton plane is too heavy for carrier operation. Is there attempts to make it a carrier borne aviation?

No, not really. I picked up a note from Sukhoi from the early flight trials of Su-34(27UB) that it was a hope for the striker to operate from CVV. But it proved to be to heavy.



Source: Piotr Butowski

 

[Haavarla]

8-10 aircraft by 2010? I recall original plans for having ~12-24 aircraft by 2010. Are any aircraft going to be delivered this year? I mean "serial production" started 2 years ago, and earlier we were told that 10 aircraft are undergoing assembly right now. They're not going to be delivered until 2010? I knew NAPO was in pretty bad shape, but they did manage to get Su-24M2 modernizations done. I figured they should be able to do at least low rate production.

Yeah, u recalled correctly Feanor.

Vladirmir Mikhailov, then Commander in Chief of the Russian Air Force annaounced that the first operational wing would be fully equipped by
2010(455thbomber regiment in Voronezh).
He also added that 200 Su-34 would be procured by 2020..

Now this is't the case, it's incompatible with the planned slow production rate of between 8-10 aircraft per year. It also conntradicts a statement made by then the ministry of Defence, Sergey Ivanov who said:

"The state Armament Programme provides for purchasing 58 Su-34 by 2015"


To add further to the confusion, an official statement from Sukhoi Company says that:

"Within the 3 years contract between the MoD and Sukhoi until 2010, the Napo factory will produce and deliver 18 Su-34's.
Subsequently, the factory will deliver 8-10 Su-34 per year".

Now, to date non of these targets have been acheived.
Su-34 No.02 although officially delivered, was not actually completed and made the first flight several months later, and flew to Lipetsk on Aug 03 2007.

Su-34 No.01 followed the former prototypes and is currently being testet at the 929th GLIC in Akhtubinsk.
Not a singel Su-34 was build in 2007 or the first half of 2008.

My best guess is that the funding was not enough.. Maybe the aircraft proved more expensive than first anticipated.

NAPO have upgraded the existing Su-34's several times between 1993-2007.



Source: Piotr Butowski

 

[funtz]

If the Russian Air Force is facing funding problems, would it be better to cut the funding for the Su-34 program and concentrate on something like a Su-35 type of multirole airplane and later just concentrate on what ever comes out of the PAK-FA program?

Is the role of the Su-34 so specific and important?

 

[Haavarla]

If the Russian Air Force is facing funding problems, would it be better to cut the funding for the Su-34 program and concentrate on something like a Su-35 type of multirole airplane and later just concentrate on what ever comes out of the PAK-FA program?

Is the role of the Su-34 so specific and important?

Good question. Witch i don't have any good answer too..


The Su-34 is meant to replace the Su-24's, and it has good spec's for a Striker.


I would not be suprised if the Su-34 No.03 emerge out of the NAPO factory late this year..

It' s possible they have shiftet funding over to the Su-35 BM trials, but not likely.

The funding to the RuAF are pretty tight, even if they recieve the 25% increase budged next year.

 

[Feanor]

The Su-34 is a strike fighter, while the Su-35BM is an air superiority platoform with some multi-role capabilities. So technically speaking both are necessary. However I think the real issue is that NAPO has been quite a mess. They have had almost no contracts since the USSR came apart, with the exception of some small modernization orders from the MoD. The real problem maybe that they simply aren't in a condition to produce the aircraft on time. But yes I would be very unpleasantly surprised if they don't produce any more aircraft this year.

 

[Salty Dog]

The Su-34 is a strike fighter, while the Su-35BM is an air superiority platoform with some multi-role capabilities. So technically speaking both are necessary. However I think the real issue is that NAPO has been quite a mess. They have had almost no contracts since the USSR came apart, with the exception of some small modernization orders from the MoD. The real problem maybe that they simply aren't in a condition to produce the aircraft on time. But yes I would be very unpleasantly surprised if they don't produce any more aircraft this year.

Are you addressing "almost no contracts" for Russia? Seems like There's been quite a few exports of the Su-30MK versions to PLAAF/PLAN, India, Algeria, Venezuela, Malaysia and Indonesia.

 

[Haavarla]

Are you addressing "almost no contracts" for Russia? Seems like There's been quite a few exports of the Su-30MK versions to PLAAF/PLAN, India, Algeria, Venezuela, Malaysia and Indonesia.

That would be the IRKUT and KNAAPO plant u're refering too.
Not the NAPO plant...

 

[Haavarla]

If the Russian Air Force is facing funding problems, would it be better to cut the funding for the Su-34 program and concentrate on something like a Su-35 type of multirole airplane and later just concentrate on what ever comes out of the PAK-FA program?

Is the role of the Su-34 so specific and important?

The 4th CBPiPLS(Centr Boyevogo Primeneniya i Pereuchivaniya Liotnogo Sostava)- Combat Evaluation and Crew Conversion center..
Pheew, Russian is hard

As it's title imply, the main tasks of the 4th CBPiPLS is developing tactics and training pilots for the real stuff! And that is sadly, War.. or more accurate Combat operations.
Every new type of tactical Aircraft is evaluated there before entering service with operational units.
Apart from the Su-34, others aircraft currently being tested there including the Su-27SM, Mig-31BM, Su-24M-mod Fencer and Su-25SM Frogfoot striker.

Some of the good stuff that come with the new Su-34 Striker is the side by side accommodation witch saves a lot of space! Such as no duplicated instruments and promotes better Crew Co-operation.
The net result of all the modification from the standard Flanker is an increase take-off weight by 50% and internal volume by 30%.
I excpect a fair amount of modern A2G equipment from Thales, such as "Thales Sniper pod".
But instead of the pod, it's integrated in the fuselage. Located behind the small retractable window right aft of the Nose wheel bay!
They call it "A Platan TV/Laser navigation-target system"!

Quite clever, less RCS and drag i believe..?

 

[nevidimka]

I excpect a fair amount of modern A2G equipment from Thales, such as "Thales Sniper pod".
But instead of the pod, it's integrated in the fuselage. Located behind the small retractable window right aft of the Nose wheel bay!
They call it "A Platan TV/Laser navigation-target system"!

Quite clever, less RCS and drag i believe..?

Nice, thats something new. I always thought the Sniper pod will be hanging somewhere, something I never liked. Is this mod available in every SU 34 to date? Or will be integrated in the new units being built? Where did you get this info from?

Is that the location which I highlighted in red box there?

 

[Haavarla]

Nice, thats something new. I always thought the Sniper pod will be hanging somewhere, something I never liked. Is this mod available in every SU 34 to date? Or will be integrated in the new units being built? Where did you get this info from?

Is that the location which I highlighted in red box there?

Let's see..
Yes on your first question and no on your last question.
The sniper/laser is located right behind the nose wheel bay, u'll see it.
Right between the air intakes.


http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Fullback.html#mozTocId867743

Just scroll down and u'll see it up close here!

 

[nevidimka]

Let's see..
Yes on your first question and no on your last question.
The sniper/laser is located right behind the nose wheel bay, u'll see it.
Right between the air intakes.


http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Fullback.html#mozTocId867743

Just scroll down and u'll see it up close here!

Hi, I read that article b4, but it looks like they updated it an added some new interesting pictures. Its good to see they have actually upgraded the cockpit into full glass cockpit like they said they would in the production model. I remember some1 saying here that wont be the case as all production model will be just like the developmental 1.

But I don't think they will integrate the Thales pod into the airframe. The 1 they mentioned is an older integral design with limitation in field of view. Most probably the Thales pod will be made to sit on 1 of its pylon.But having the pod on 1 of its pylon will be a waste of space for bomb load. Please reread the article and see for yourself. I know now which 1 you were referring to. Its the 1 I highlighted in red below.

 

[Haavarla]

Hi, I read that article b4, but it looks like they updated it an added some new interesting pictures. Its good to see they have actually upgraded the cockpit into full glass cockpit like they said they would in the production model. I remember some1 saying here that wont be the case as all production model will be just like the developmental 1.

But I don't think they will integrate the Thales pod into the airframe. The 1 they mentioned is an older integral design with limitation in field of view. Most probably the Thales pod will be made to sit on 1 of its pylon.But having the pod on 1 of its pylon will be a waste of space for bomb load. Please reread the article and see for yourself. I know now which 1 you were referring to. Its the 1 I highlighted in red below.

Ok, my bad. I see it now. The Platan Tv-laser search and track targeting system was installed in 1999. So yes it is an older system. That would mean the Thales pod being used after all.

But in other sources(Air Internasional magazine) Piotr Butowski made a big story about the Su-34.
There he said:
"It is intendet eventually to integrate the full arsenal of short and medium-range wepons. A new Solluks podded thermal imaging navigation and target pod is currently being testet on the aircraft, and production Fullbaks will be fitted with up-rated AL-31M turbofans having increased thrust from 124.6kN to 144.5kN. Acording to officials announcements, the second stage of qualification tests will be completed in 2009"

The planned V005 rearward-facing radar has yet too be installed, but
Su-34 Nr 44 and 45 have installed the V004 multi-function phased array radar.

They also updated the avionics and wepons systemsinclude replacing Argon-series main computer with a 32-bit open architecture BTsVM-386 digital computer i 2003 on all Su-34's. And in 2006 they got all the liquid crystal displays.

Time is racing fast for R&D on these Su-34's. I quess we will se newer systems in late 2009, as i mention b4.
I really hope NAPO manage to squeeze another Su-34 out in the end of this year.