Su-30MKI vs Su-30MKK

[Scorpion82]

mk2 uses n-001vep version 2 not zhuk-mse (which had yet to finish testing when China purchased mk2) Also, it appears that China is interested in upgrading the engine of the existing flankers to AL-31FM1. It was in the JDW article that talked about J-10 getting AL-31FN-M1 and several Russian articles recently.

I believe the Algerians said they want the same version of su-30 that IAF is getting.

Thanks for the info about the MK2, I thought it has the Zhuk-MS, maybe it was only a possible option.

About Algeria, I know their air force prefered the Su-30MK, but they ordered the MiG-29SMT and are now also looking to a western fighter to complement the Fulcrum. It looks like the Rafale seems to be the prefered option.

 

[funtz]

To show the level of dissing that goes on, even in same sector (aviation) of the same country here is
The president of the Irkutsk Aviation Industrial Association MR. Alexey Fedorov
Taking about KNAAPO
www.knaapo.ru/eng/
As if it was a small tractor manufacturing firm in the "far east".
it is also relevant(well not really) to the debate.

The plane for China is a different aircraft from a different company from the Far East in Russia.

http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/interview-fedorov1.html

I think, there is no such opinion which is "neutral", in any way, especially in aviation sector, especially amongst defense analysts.

I think now that the cat has been out of the bag for such long a time, it is clear to see with the advantage of time, "IT'S 2007".

1. India wished for a plane with technological difference in avionics area to give it whatever edge possible in the region.
This is why they made such a complicated deal which involved many sources, eventually India ended up paying more than they would have had to pay if it was an exclusive Russian bird, and complicated the assembly "hal had to order 40 more Russian assembled birds in addition to what they were making to meet the 2015 date line".

In addition to this Russia realized the importance of the deal in India's air force structure (like Goshkov air defense ship, as the indian carrier was supposed to retire by 2009-2010), now any step in price increment will have to be tolerated by India.

Irkut and HAL engineers are currently working on a structural modification to enable the Indian SU30 for BrahMos (well its the only heavy class air force jet capable of carrying around a BrahMos or 2), which goes to show that india will use the SU30 as "the frontline" of its air force.

In 2010 India will decide what further upgrades are possible (avionics) to keep up on the route chosen through different avionics from different sources.

2. China wished for an all Russian set up, with a license to build around 500-550 planes with the option of adding whatever they make in china, for the sole reason of a easy assembly and higher quantity, due to the all Russian deal they were more than able to meet the aim of time and cost (which is of prime importance to China), other Russian radars were heavier than what was originally though by KNAAPO, and a mid life upgrade would have required a structural modification, hence China refused, which goes to show it will be the workhorse of PLA-AF(every thing is the army even tha navy is PLA-N), they will use a J-10 as the frontline.

Well it’s easier now that the plans are out.
Will provide the link, if you disagree with any information.

 

[qwerty223]

the malaysian mkm configuration is based on the mki ,but the israeli equipment on the mki have been replaced by the indian and french equipment on the mkm

Sorry for the late interrupt.
MKM has a avionics combination of Russia, French, South Africa instead

 

[Firehorse]

recon Su-30MKK?

Israeli Equipped Su-30s Replace Mig-25s
October 4, 2007: The Indian Air Force is replacing its Mig-25 reconnaissance aircraft with Su-30s carrying Israeli sensors. This will enable the Su-30MKI aircraft to take pictures up to 300 kilometers inside another country's (Pakistan and China) territory. This is much better than what the Russian equipped MiG-25 could do.

Can the Chinese modify their Su-30s for a similar role? Most interestingly, the PLANAF could use them to detect CSGs!

 

[Chrom]

Can the Chinese modify their Su-30s for a similar role? Most interestingly, the PLANAF could use them to detect CSGs!

Sure they can. Still, as recon platform (putting sensors aside) Mig-25 is surery much superior to Su-30. It have much higher speed, much higher celling, more place for sensors.

 

[funtz]

It is not about the platform it is about the equipment,
India can use any plane that can carry the weight of the sensor and provide the required power for recon, of course the higher they fly the better it is.

PLA-AF can also use such pods for similar role on any aircraft that does the job

India chose the Elta EL/M-2060P SAR/GMTI Reconnaissance System

With the following data link (which makes it much sought after)
ELTA's EL/K-1850 microwave data link family
C, X or Ku-Band
Full-duplex
More than 250 NM range, depending on radio Line-Of-Sight (LOS)

It can help in real time recon.

The MiG 25 India was used at a time when recon meant using bulky optical instruments, once the film was made one had to go all the way to the base submit the film, which was processed and analyzed, and sent to the respective commands/intelligence agencies, it was a very hush-hush process, at a time when no radar-SAM or interceptor in the neighborhood could do much against the MiG-25, The soviets provided India with top of the line stuff for those days, optimised for higher altitude and speed and recon instead of interception.

well those days are gone now its time to move on many other space based sensors provide the same role(again they are all still hushed up), it did for India in relative terms what the SR plane did for US, such beautiful bird, she deserved a graceful retirement.

Anyways if things go this way a SAR on a high endurance UAV which can fly real high will be much better

 

[nero]

Mkk

.

The MKK holds many advantages over the indian MKI. these include,


the Tikhonravov NIIP "N001VE" radar, which is an updated export version of the original N001 radar with air-to-air, air-to-ground, and navigation modes.
An OLS-30 optical sensor system and Sura-K helmet-mounted sight.
An L-150 Pastel ELINT set to provide radar warning and emitter targeting capabilities. Incidentally, one of the few distinctive recognition features of the Su-30MKK is that the tailfins have been increased in height and have flat, not angled, tips, with antennas for the Pastel set mounted in near the top rear of the tailfins.
An A-737 satellite navigation receiver, compatible with both the US GPS and Russian GLONASS satellite navigation systems, linked into a comprehensive navigation system. The Su-30MKK also carries modern radios, a datalink, and a video recorder system.
A glass cockpit, with a wide-angle HUD and two 15.8 x 21.1 centimeter (6.2 x 8.3 inch) flat panel displays for the pilot, and two similar flat-panel displays for the back-seater.

:china :china

.

 

[funtz]

Man i dont even want to respond to that.

Try to read a gazillion articles available on why india opted for international/national avionics, radar computer, EW equipment, recon pods etc. etc.

Really the radar, hmm, again zip, nothing (please read up on available radar specs).

RWR oh yes poor MKI has no RWR, ta such poor we indians are.

navigation, oh we indian like to carry torch, and chicken tikka, yes please.

Glass cockpit, oh no no our aircraft be having big big dials, it be so easy plus there be no electricity in delhi, how bill glass cockpit be borking.

HUD, Bhat is that, we throw stones from aircrafts.

enough, this thread will be closed again if this is what is going to happen

 

[tphuang]

Can the Chinese modify their Su-30s for a similar role? Most interestingly, the PLANAF could use them to detect CSGs!

They use J-8Fs as the reconnaissance aircraft. It's much cheaper than MKK, actually has better T/W ratio and can fly faster. The only thing it looses out on is range. But then again with full afterburner, the fuel consumption rate of turbofan and turbojet don't make as much of a difference.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

.

The MKK holds many advantages over the indian MKI. these include,


the Tikhonravov NIIP "N001VE" radar, which is an updated export version of the original N001 radar with air-to-air, air-to-ground, and navigation modes.
An OLS-30 optical sensor system and Sura-K helmet-mounted sight.
An L-150 Pastel ELINT set to provide radar warning and emitter targeting capabilities. Incidentally, one of the few distinctive recognition features of the Su-30MKK is that the tailfins have been increased in height and have flat, not angled, tips, with antennas for the Pastel set mounted in near the top rear of the tailfins.
An A-737 satellite navigation receiver, compatible with both the US GPS and Russian GLONASS satellite navigation systems, linked into a comprehensive navigation system. The Su-30MKK also carries modern radios, a datalink, and a video recorder system.
A glass cockpit, with a wide-angle HUD and two 15.8 x 21.1 centimeter (6.2 x 8.3 inch) flat panel displays for the pilot, and two similar flat-panel displays for the back-seater.

:china :china

.

mate what the #@$* are you taking about???? Have you actually looked at the MKI? Most of the stuff you just used as "evidence" of the MKK's superiority are actually markably inferior to the MKI, especially the radar.

 

[sidewinder2006]

.

The MKK holds many advantages over the indian MKI. these include,


the Tikhonravov NIIP "N001VE" radar, which is an updated export version of the original N001 radar with air-to-air, air-to-ground, and navigation modes.
An OLS-30 optical sensor system and Sura-K helmet-mounted sight.
An L-150 Pastel ELINT set to provide radar warning and emitter targeting capabilities. Incidentally, one of the few distinctive recognition features of the Su-30MKK is that the tailfins have been increased in height and have flat, not angled, tips, with antennas for the Pastel set mounted in near the top rear of the tailfins.
An A-737 satellite navigation receiver, compatible with both the US GPS and Russian GLONASS satellite navigation systems, linked into a comprehensive navigation system. The Su-30MKK also carries modern radios, a datalink, and a video recorder system.
A glass cockpit, with a wide-angle HUD and two 15.8 x 21.1 centimeter (6.2 x 8.3 inch) flat panel displays for the pilot, and two similar flat-panel displays for the back-seater.

:china :china

.

Hahahahahha...this guy is just on a mission to throw stones at anything Indian....really funny !: : : :

Put him on a test...for say..If I say I love Chicken Tikka..This guy will surely jump in and say........no...here is the link to chinkipidia ...look it says Noodles are more nutritious than Indian Tikka.....What a joker :vamp :vamp

 

[Chrom]

It is not about the platform it is about the equipment,
India can use any plane that can carry the weight of the sensor and provide the required power for recon, of course the higher they fly the better it is.

Sure, new sensors on SU-30MKI are better than 20-years old sensors on MIG-25. Who would guessed that?

But why India even choose SU-30MKI instead of Mig-25 as PLATFORM for these new Israel sensors??

 

[funtz]

Sure, new sensors on SU-30MKI are better than 20-years old sensors on MIG-25. Who would guessed that?

But why India even choose SU-30MKI instead of Mig-25 as PLATFORM for these new Israel sensors??

Well at the time of the MiG 25, it was top of the line especially as a recon plane, I was only stressing the advantage the newer technology has provided us with, for example we do not have to fly directly above a place 100km inside Pakistan in places like Punjab, Rajisthan Border which are large planes, earlier this was not the case.

MiG 25 was intended for flying at altitudes which rendered SAM and radar cover in India's immediate neighborhood ineffective.

Right now, exceptionally high altitude doesn't guarantee a safer option, and with the evolution of technology, there is a possibility of taking collecting similar data through space based equipment

There are efforts going on to have a dedicated space intelligence, for that purpose more sophisticated equipment is also being procured and developed through what i can guess active Russian and Israeli support.

However as this is the most important element of military intelligence no one will ever hear about this, one will only be able to follow the figures in current and future launches of rockets which put something up there, and have a rough guess through that.

MiG 25? Now it is the MiG 31, I guess, the updated version.

As for the base of the sensors themselves, having a dedicated platform that is specifically in use for a SAR will take more money, something which is not in free supply.

Higher altitude will help in increasing the range of the sensor, however unlike the reports in papers point out this is only for real time coverage of locations near the border, that is the armor positions, artillery's positions etc. etc. which are in the line of sight of the SAR emissions not for looking 500-600 km inside China or Pakistan.

The SU 30 can do that job very well, it can carry high payloads, go up to a decent, height, provide the required power.

 

[funtz]

chinkipidia

As of the last Indian Idol contest and the ensuing riots, that term is almost officially racist, currently the process of submitting a PIL is underway which might ban the use of this term, judging by the response it created, chances are it will be termed a racist slur.

In the Gurkha brigade many brave soldiers have given there blood for their Country (India), in situations you and i can not even imagine, the families of many Gurkha's have lived with out a parent, brother, husband or son just because something had to be done to secure the integrity of the nation, I hope you realize that.

 

[sidewinder2006]

As of the last Indian Idol contest and the ensuing riots, that term is almost officially racist, currently the process of submitting a PIL is underway which might ban the use of this term, judging by the response it created, chances are it will be termed a racist slur.

In the Gurkha brigade many brave soldiers have given there blood for their Country (India), in situations you and i can not even imagine, the families of many Gurkha's have lived with out a parent, brother, husband or son just because something had to be done to secure the integrity of the nation, I hope you realize that.

oooooppppsssss...didnt realize that this might point something towords racism !!! I didnt really mean that ! I have great respect for all our gurkha brothers!
Sorry abt that ya !

But I used that term with a bit of pun actually ! What I meant was chinkipedia=Wikipedia ,the chineese way (Well Mr. Nero advertises himself to be a Chineese ) !

I understand and admit there are some very good chineese contributors in this forum...Sorry if I've hurt them !

 

[SABRE]

I am starting to smell trouble. I am warning ... certain members would be banned & thread would be locked for a long long time.

No more Racism & childish posts with no credible backings!!!

We are hoping for full cooporation from all the members interested in this thread.

 

[su-30mki]

And I Thought V/s Threads Were Not Allowed Here.

 

[SABRE]

THREAD CLOSED.

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