Su-30MKI vs Su-30MKK

[P.A.F]

I have read many articles and magazines regarding this issue. some claim that one of the Su-30's is better than the other. so guys, i would like to know your views on this. which of the Su-30's is more capible in different roles such as air to air combat, ground strike etc... and why?
please don't be biased.
cheers!!!!

 

[nuke_em]

The MKI is better than the MKK MKI was jointly built by indians and russians it is a better variant and is only manufactured for IAF

 

[P.A.F]

The MKI is better than the MKK MKI was jointly built by indians and russians it is a better variant and is only manufactured for IAF

why? what makes the MKI better than the MKK?

 

[nuke_em]

ok here



Though regarded as a variant of Su-30, the Su-30 MKI is a much better fighter aircraft. The variant has significant upgrades on it from the basic Sukhoi Su-30 MK version. The aircraft was jointly designed by Russia's Sukhoi and India's Hindustan Aeronautics and DRDO. Israeli Aircraft Industries also played a key role in the development of the project.

Improvements include 3D-vectoring thrust engines and the N-011 radar which has a detection range of 150 to 160 km and a Radar Cross Section (RCS) of 3 to 5 m². Unlike most similar fighters, it is also equipped to deliver nuclear weapons.


Su-30 MKI Avionics

The avionics in the Su-30MKI are all weather, dual frequency, digital multi mode, with the NIIP N-011M radar, which has a 200 km tracking range and a 350 km search range. The aircraft's radar can track and actively engage 20 enemy targets and engage the 8 most dangerous simultaneously. This radar can track and engage tactical ballistic/cruise missiles and motionless helicopters (very few aircraft in the world have this capability). The radar at sea has a 20-metre detection resolution of large targets at sea, up to distances of 400 km. Small sea target detected at sea at a distances of 120 km.

India plans to install Astra air-to-air missile and BrahMos supersonic cruise missile to the Su-30 MKI. With the instalment of these new missiles, the MKI can be a serious contender to many modern fighter jets including the Typhoon and the Rafale.

Currently India has never let any external air force practice or exercise with it's Su-30 MKI variants. However, the American Air force has exercised with the Indian Air force’s MK variants during Cope India '04.


Major variants include the K, MK and MKI aircraft. The Sukhoi Su-30 MKI variant is often confused by the with the Sukhoi Su-30 MK-1 variant. The MK-1 variant has significantly less fighter capabilities than MKI variant. The Sukhoi Su-30 MK-1 variant is a dual-seater, long-range interceptor, whereas the Sukhoi Su-30 MKI variant is a dual-seater, multi-role capability fighter jet. On the other hand the Sukhoi Su-30K variant is a dual-seater, limited multi-role capability fighter jet. There are several other key differences between the MKI and other variants of Su-30 aircraft. The Su-30 MKI has a maximum range, with one in-flight refuelling, of 8000 km. The Su-30MK and Su-30MK-1 has a maximum range, with one in-flight refuelling, of 5200 km (35% less than MKI variant). The Su-30MKI has thrust vectoring engines whereas the Su-30MK and Su-30MK-1 do not have thrust vectoring engines

 

[nuke_em]

su-30 MKI specs

General characteristics

* Crew: Two
* Length: 22.10 m (72 ft 51 in)
* Wingspan: 14.70 m (48 ft 23 in)
* Height: 6.38 m (22 ft 89 in)
* Wing area: 62.04 m² (667.8 ft²)
* Empty weight: 24,900 kg (54,900 lb)
* Loaded weight: 34,500 kg (76,100 lb)
* Maximum gross takeoff weight: kg (lb)
* Powerplant: 2× Lyulka AL-31FP turbofans with thrust vectoring, 131 kN (29,400 lbf) each

Performance

* Maximum speed: Mach 1,10, 1,350 km/h at sea level; Mach 2+, 2,135+ km/h at 11,000 m (840 mph at sea level / 1,330+ mph at 36,000 ft)
* Range: 1,500 km (930 mi)
* Service ceiling: 18,000 m (59,000 ft)
* Rate of climb: 305 m/s (60,000 ft/min)
* Wing loading: 414 kg/m² (85 lb/ft²)
* Thrust/weight: 1.10:1

Armament

* 1x 30 mm Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30-1 cannon with 150 rounds
* 14 AAMs R-37, R-73, R-77 only on outboard stations

 

[tphuang]

MKI is not only manufactured for IAF. MKM and MKA are all using similar standards (slightly different though).

It's about different doctrines. Plaaf was looking for something that can do precision bombing, A2S, A2G strikes and such. I know MKI can do that too, but MKK is considered to have the stronger airframe with the greater payload due to its commonalities with su-35ub.

As for MKI, IAF was looking for the air superiority type and it got that. It's clearly a superior plane in terms of avionics and maneuverability to MKK. By the way, it uses a 2D TVC engine, not a 3D.

Also, there is the issue of factory association. China with knaapo and India with iapo. Another thing is that China needed its mkk really fast to scare Taiwan and it wasn't looking for too much new technology, so it chose the less risky mkk design. It was also looking for something that was in Russian air force and su-27sm upgraded (done by knaapo) uses a lot of technology developed for mkk. On the other hand, India was willing to wait longer to integrate all the new technology, so it got a better plane out of it.

 

[berry580]

SU-30MKK is made for China while the SU-30MKI is for India and it has thrust vectoring, thats the main thing which separates the two.

I heard somewhere the SU-30MKI has superior avionic compared to SU-30MKK, hence it unit price is higher than the SU-30MKK.

 

[aaaditya]

another major difference between the mki and the mkk are the presence of canards on the mki ,while the mkk does not have canards.

the mki has french ,indian,and israeli avionics.

the mki has inspired several aircrafts,i believe vietnam has the mki configuration,the malaysian mkm configuration is based on the mki ,but the israeli equipment on the mki have been replaced by the indian and french equipment on the mkm,recently one african country acquire the su30 variant for which hal is carrying out the subcontracting work particularly with respect to avionics.

the avionics system of mki were developed and integrated under the project vetrivale.according to the indian air chief the mki's will be upgraded in blocks,these upgrades will include the irbis snowleapord radar which has been offered by the russia to venezuela,integration of the indigenously designed astra bvr missile,indo-russian brahmos missile and the ks172 missiles.

the mki also has indigenous ew system instead of the israeli or french ones,these are the tarang and the tempest pods,i believe the recently developed shiv pod can also be used .

 

[tphuang]

hmm, Vietnam actually got mkk2. That one African country is Algeria.

As for KS-172, it's originally developed for su-35, not for mki. It just happens that the Russians want to sell it to the su-30 customers too, And also, this is not some super weapon.

dude, Tarang is just the RWR. The EW suite is French.

 

[norinco89]

How much does the MKI and the MKK2 cost?

 

[XEROX]

The Indian Sukhoi, MKI is much more advanced then other derivatives in terms of its avionics and sensors.(mainly Indian, French, Israeli, Russian)


It should also be noted that the Indian MKI program is in blocks, so each block is going to be more advanced then the next, with powerful radar, stealth characteristics and progressive evolution of A2G, A2A missions gradually coming into play over the next 12/14 years.

 

[dabrownguy]

It really depends on the block of MKI your talking about. The Su-30MKI also has the same weapons payload. HAL has built 2 MKI's with stronger perhaps weaker airframe but used more compisote materials. The Su-30MKI also has better cockpit reducing the workload and enhancing the situational awarness. It also comes with a open archetecture design. So maybe we'll see Metour AAM.
But if that doesnt happen the K-172 will be there. India and Russia have begun developing this missile for Flankers and perhaps Falcrums. So sales would need approval from both sides. Just like PJ-10. I've also heard that the latest tranche III has 3D tvc. If anyone can confirm this please. The Su-30MKI also has a better radar. One N 011 radar fitted with BARS technology which allows the aircraft to indentify the aircraft on the engines it uses. Beats me but thats how it works. Other then that the other majour defference is that it uses Tempest EW system which is a spinoff of LCA project.

 

[tphuang]

hmm, Vietnam actually got mkk2. That one African country is Algeria.

As for KS-172, it's originally developed for su-35, not for mki. It just happens that the Russians want to sell it to the su-30 customers too, And also, this is not some super weapon.

dude, Tarang is just the RWR. The EW suite is French.

never mind, my bad. The EW suite isn't french. Well, if Tempest EW suite is as good or better than the Israeli one, then that's quite an accomplishment for India.

As for engine, I think you guys might be going for AL-31FM1 or FM2 or FM3 or even AL-41F1 in the future.

As for pricing MK2 cost China around 38 million each. I'm not sure what kind of packaging that included. I would assume that cost included 100 R-77s and some other AAMs and possibly an assortment of Kh-59ME and KH-31A.

As for MKI, you can find out some of the information here http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/su-30.htm
I know that MKM cost 50 million each. Although, I'm not sure if that included the extra money that they paid the French for integration of French avionics.

 

[aaaditya]

never mind, my bad. The EW suite isn't french. Well, if Tempest EW suite is as good or better than the Israeli one, then that's quite an accomplishment for India.

As for engine, I think you guys might be going for AL-31FM1 or FM2 or FM3 or even AL-41F1 in the future.

As for pricing MK2 cost China around 38 million each. I'm not sure what kind of packaging that included. I would assume that cost included 100 R-77s and some other AAMs and possibly an assortment of Kh-59ME and KH-31A.

As for MKI, you can find out some of the information here http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/su-30.htm
I know that MKM cost 50 million each. Although, I'm not sure if that included the extra money that they paid the French for integration of French avionics.

iam sure a modified version (uprated and improved) of the al55 engines can also be used,these engines are likely to power the hjt-36 sitara and the hjt-39 cat,if they can be modified for mig29 and the su30mki ,then greater commonality can be achieved.

 

[Black Legion]

I too have a question regarding the Sukhoi aircraft and other. I know the project for the SU47 and MIG 35MFI were abandoned primarily because of lack of funds....but I was wondering how many Sukhoi planes like the SU35, SU37 does the Russian airforce have in their inventory...last I heard the Russian force hasn't seriously updated their fleet since the mid 1990s
Could someone share some light on this, I would appreciate it.

 

[aaaditya]

I too have a question regarding the Sukhoi aircraft and other. I know the project for the SU47 and MIG 35MFI were abandoned primarily because of lack of funds....but I was wondering how many Sukhoi planes like the SU35, SU37 does the Russian airforce have in their inventory...last I heard the Russian force hasn't seriously updated their fleet since the mid 1990s
Could someone share some light on this, I would appreciate it.

the mig-mfi has been abandoned due to the lack of funds,but the same cannot be said about the su47 berkut,berkut was developed as a concept vehicle to validate forward swept wing and fifth genration technologies,and it has served its purpose,many of the lessons learned from the berkut are now being used on the pak-fa project(the pak-fa can be considered as a stealthy conventionally winged version of the berkut.)

 

[norinco89]

the burkut was funded by the indians.

Both sukhois do what they were made to do.

Both nations need to produce domesticaallly to reduce costs.

Both countries expecially india need to have more indigious parts to once again reduce parts.

China needs canards, a better engine(which is on the way), a 3d tvc and a new radar.

the mki is of course more better than mkk but the costs and role they play are quite different.

 

[aaaditya]

the burkut was funded by the indians.

Both sukhois do what they were made to do.

Both nations need to produce domesticaallly to reduce costs.

Both countries expecially india need to have more indigious parts to once again reduce parts.

China needs canards, a better engine(which is on the way), a 3d tvc and a new radar.

the mki is of course more better than mkk but the costs and role they play are quite different.

buddy can you provide a source for your statement that india funded berkut,iam asking this out of genuine interest because i dont think that india funded berkut. india is still considering its involvement in the russian fifth gen fighter aircraft project .the berkut was a technology demonstrator project to validate the fifth generation concepts and technologies.

 

[norinco89]

Russia began it and like most of its projects it ran out of funds to finish it.

India didnt fund the whole thing but it just partnered up with russia. India provided the money for the project to continue, russia provides the resources.

India provided money for it to continue therefore it funded it.

 

[suryaaa]

aaditya you said that india is waiting to join the pak-fa.in earlier posts we said that india is an active member.some clarification please.