Spanish armada interested in the F-35B

[agc33e]

Ceuta & Melilla (their mainland African territories) can be covered from mainland Spain. Melilla is ca 150 km from Spain, Ceuta only 25 km. The small Spanish islands off the Moroccan coast are no further away.

The Canaries consist of several separate islands, with six international airports: one on each of the larger islands, & two on one island. One airport has a military airbase attached. There are also two smaller airports on smaller islands, for inter-island use, which military freighters could fly into & out of from Spain. There are 5 runways over 3000 metres, 3 from 2200 to 2500 metres, & 2 from 1250 to 1500 metres.

Madeira & Porto Santo (Portuguese, thus friendly) is a bit over 500km away, with two airports, & runways of 2780 & 3150 metres.

Morocco is the only country with easy access to the Spanish African territories. Algeria would need to co-operate with Morocco, or (in effect) declare war on Morocco to attack Melilla or Ceuta. It could only do so from the sea, or via Moroccan territory.

We can see from this that unless an attacker could seize several islands (with a population of over 2 million - we're not talking the Falklands) very quickly, or quickly make eight separate airports unusable, before Spain could reinforce them by air, & seize or neutralise Madeira, Spain would not need carrier-based aircraft to cover its territories.

That is for all those circunstances, but there are other points for having a carrier, fleet things, and international missions, a carrier or a bpe or bigger bpe.

 

[agc33e]

in fact the only concern that has Spain in terms of defense is Morocco and comply with NATO.

part of humanitarian missions ...

the truth is that Spain is experiencing fairly quiet ... jejeje ...

on the other hand Spain's interest to have aircraft carriers have always been the canary islands, but today there airbases in canary combining F-18 and Mirage F-1 (the mirages are being replaced by eurofigthter).

but our army attaches great importance to have a loaded air force, both to protect canary Ceuta and Melilla, or just meet the NATO missions.

I think that Spain will have 2 BPE, I think he will stay with 1 and looking for some sort of substitute for the PDA ...

The BPE is a vessel that was purchased to gain more power and projection and Spain currently has the BPE (JCI) and class 2 vessels "Galicia", with that we have enough to transport troops, tanks, armored vehicles and helicopters .

BPE buy a second one just to work with the F-35B would be an absurdity, the boat would go always half empty ...

The logic is that a boat adapted to be manufactured only for aircraft carriers.

The idea of a bigger bpe it would be good, a longer bpe, gives the lhd function together with more jets, more fuel, more bunkerage, more munition lift and even more vehicles-tanks, a bigger bpe wow!

 

[swerve]

But the prize of the f35b is 60-90 mill euro, and it weigths the double of a harrier, so the harrier like haflprice of that, 30-45 mill euro, and with probably inferior electronic capacities, of some type, so still less, that is probably <25... but with some competitive electronics, adopted from the eurofighter for example.

For a very small production run, with development work to integrate new avionics, the unit cost would be a lot more than that. You're not going to sell hundreds.

 

[StingrayOZ]

Drain your bunkerage in hours... 800 tonnes of jp5, for 100 loads of 8 tonnes of jp5, with 8 tonnes of jp5 in a f35b you have for a range of almost 2000 kms. So 100 full range sorties, 4 battles of 20 f35b´s, or 100 elements of guerrilla. Plus the oilers. Now 600 square meters of weaponry, of 2,5 meters of height, for example, is like 1500 cubic meters of space, you might need 6 cubic meters for 2 amraams (3,7 mts long), so you can have like hundreds of amraams, like 400 hundred?...etc.

So by your own numbers you can only have 100 sorties from your BPE carrier. With 20 aircraft thats going to end up being less than 5 missions. It cannot sustain 20 aircraft for long periods. US carriers can support 160+ sorties a day sustained! Look at their fuel bunkerage.

400 Amraams unsecured in the hanger? Are you nuts? You don't store weapons willy nilly around a ship. What happens when a small fire breaks out in the hanger? Your suggesting refuelling in the hanger too? insane!

From what I've seen the BPE could handle 3-6 aircraft for a reasonable period. A2A or minor A2G. Thats ok, its not a carrier.

If you refitted temporary fuel bunkerage in moveable fuel tanks and had temporary workshops and weapon storage it would not be efficent but could act as a fill in carrier.

The BPE design could be turned into a carrier which is a much better idea. Double or tripple the fuel bunkerage, larger dedicated weapon stores, conversion of open space to aircraft maintence facilities.

 

[swerve]

...
From what I've seen the BPE could handle 3-6 aircraft for a reasonable period. A2A or minor A2G. Thats ok, its not a carrier.

If you refitted temporary fuel bunkerage in moveable fuel tanks and had temporary workshops and weapon storage it would not be efficent but could act as a fill in carrier.....

I believe this is what will be done when it switches roles. Containerised modules will be installed in the vehicle deck & dock, & the stern gate sealed. It's briefly described somewhere in the official publicity information.

 

[Alonso Quijano]

has always been said that the BPE will serve as auxiliary vessel when the PDA is in dry dock.

the future is a new PDA.

 

[agc33e]

So by your own numbers you can only have 100 sorties from your BPE carrier. With 20 aircraft thats going to end up being less than 5 missions. It cannot sustain 20 aircraft for long periods. US carriers can support 160+ sorties a day sustained! Look at their fuel bunkerage.

It can put in the air 18 f35b´s in the air at the same time for a couple of hours at least, then you begin the rotation in the petrol station, landing, refuelling and sending, so maybe permanent 14 or 15 in the air all the time because they can land 3 or 4 easy at the same time and send them together again or 1 by 1.., now use the oilers, a couple of recent spanish navy oilers have for 3200 cubic meters of jp5 so 3200 (i suppose more) tonnes of jp5 or a bit more..... plus the 800 of the bpe: 4000 tonnes of jp5, enough for 1000 sorties medim range of f35b´s, you can do much with that. Other thing if you bring a superoiler in the fleet, for example like 70000 tonnes of jp5...do you think a usnavy supercarrier can carry 70000 tonnes of jp5? jp5 is not a problem!

400 Amraams unsecured in the hanger? Are you nuts? You don't store weapons willy nilly around a ship. What happens when a small fire breaks out in the hanger? Your suggesting refuelling in the hanger too? insane!

You have said that so you are the nuts! i havent said nothing of missiles in the hangar, 600 sq mts is the weapons warehouse.

From what I've seen the BPE could handle 3-6 aircraft for a reasonable period. A2A or minor A2G. Thats ok, its not a carrier.

Incorrect, that is your personal numbers, mine are 14-15 at the same time minimum, plus the peaks of the 18 complete pack. Rememer 200 lane meters of fligh deck, for 15 meters the long the jet, son they can easy land in any of the spots, medium spots, or the biggers for the chinooks, land 3 or 4 at the same time...i would say yes to sustain 14 or 15 at the same time in good sea state conditions.

If you refitted temporary fuel bunkerage in moveable fuel tanks and had temporary workshops and weapon storage it would not be efficent but could act as a fill in carrier.

The BPE design could be turned into a carrier which is a much better idea. Double or tripple the fuel bunkerage, larger dedicated weapon stores, conversion of open space to aircraft maintence facilities

 

[gf0012-aust]

Post Reported.

Closed while under review by Mods