You are correct, the chances of them picking up on the ROK design is very slim.
South Korea launches Amphibious Tank XK2
- Thread starter SATAN
- Start date
You betcha I said it, and I did not state that it was German either, and stop with the indigenous word please, you are starting to sound like a propaganda poster child for the North Koreans. Every thing you are stating you have no proof except a bunch of internet advertising from the makers that took design technology from other countries to make the XK2. if you feel that it is the pride of South Korea then so be it, it is your countries military that has to fight in it. Plus do not under estimate the North Koreans because they have T-62`s, they have other things in mind that are more pressing for you. You do not have much military experience if any and it shows. This is my last response to you. Please let us know when you dig up some more propaganda it is quite amusing.Are you trying to say you didn't say "And your K9 thunder 155 gun is not your design either, just the muzzle brake." ????
I think you are avoiding the facts that I gave you above concerning CPS, GPS etc. :smoker
and I give you indigenous 120/55 gun testing pic.
this pic was taken from PDP TV screen which were playing XK2 video provided by ADD or Agency for Defense Development.
Have a nice day Blue shark.
yes we are,but.....
we don´t have no capability to built first line MBT´s right now,especially the advanced armor technology,right now we build APC´s (ACV/-S) and wheeled plattforms,we have build 105 mm guns,but yet we don´t have build any 120 mm gun(nor the advanced ammunition),except those for the SABRA type M60 upgrade which are licenced to IMI and they are "only" 120/44 and we don´t have tank engines in the 1200/1500 hp class.....
yet we have the capability to build modern complete FCS-the system for the indigenous MBT is currently under developement by ASELSAN...
what i wanted to say by these,that we don´t want to build the MBT starting by zero and end up like the Indian Arjun :shudder
there are currently two teams which are developing the MBT and both have teamed up with a foreign company(there are not many tank companies which are currently supporting us),so my guess is,that one of this team works with ROTEM, so imo there is a POSSIBILITY of a turkish version of the XK-2 tank
"i hope there will be one!"
This thread is dangerously close to being terminated along with blue_shark.
Israel is the founding fathers of the auto tracking systemoops i thought you meant the first ever auto tracking system,not that of the
XK-2,my fault!
but,plz explain me,why Turkey will not get the XK-2,just an explanation plz!
ok,it´s not cheap,i know that,as blue shark has pointed,the price will fall when more units are purchased/built,but do you think,that South Korea will make any problems regarding the terms of technology transfer?K9/Firtina, is simply said a turkish version of the K9 with some differences(fire control system) with little more than 70% locally made parts,the same can/should be applied to the XK-2,so plz explain me your comment,i´m very interessted in it:unknown
just because South Korea invited Turkey to look at their tank doesn`t warrant a un official news story that they are interested in buying it, in the last year alone rumors have been circulating that Turkey will buy Leclerc, but not now because of political issues, they are interested in AL-Khalid from Pakistan, they are interested in more Leo`s from Germany, now they are stating and providing artist mock ups of their own home grown design. Blah Blah Blah the list will continue. The K9 is a good artillery platform for the price that Turkey paid for it, cheap cheap cheap.:unknown
Makes you wonder why no one else is buying them, could it be that there are better systems available.
blue_shark
New Member
well, I was just rifle man in the Army and do not have much knowledge about tanks but I do have more information about KX2 than you are.You betcha I said it, and I did not state that it was German either, and stop with the indigenous word please, you are starting to sound like a propaganda poster child for the North Koreans. Every thing you are stating you have no proof except a bunch of internet advertising from the makers that took design technology from other countries to make the XK2. if you feel that it is the pride of South Korea then so be it, it is your countries military that has to fight in it. Plus do not under estimate the North Koreans because they have T-62`s, they have other things in mind that are more pressing for you. You do not have much military experience if any and it shows. This is my last response to you. Please let us know when you dig up some more propaganda it is quite amusing.
Have a nice day Blue shark.
you always saying it is propaganda what I've said about XK2. I'm not that idiot. at least I can search every official words about XK2 throught the parliment records, media reports, ADD and Rotem's announcemnets etc.
indigenous CPS, GPS, 120/55 gun, plant to develop inidegnous powerpack etc. those things, I stated based on facts.
and you always think that's propaganda. who is childish?
Sorry Pathfinder-X
I have worked with the South Korean military on quite a few occasions and I know how they operate and know their vehicle capabilities. I have nothing but pride for the ROK forces. I will stop responding to this particular thread. It is becoming rather insulting.
well that of israel beeing the founder of the auto-tracking-system,well i saw it on discovery channel:unknownIsrael is the founding fathers of the auto tracking system
just because South Korea invited Turkey to look at their tank doesn`t warrant a un official news story that they are interested in buying it, in the last year alone rumors have been circulating that Turkey will buy Leclerc, but not now because of political issues, they are interested in AL-Khalid from Pakistan, they are interested in more Leo`s from Germany, now they are stating and providing artist mock ups of their own home grown design. Blah Blah Blah the list will continue. The K9 is a good artillery platform for the price that Turkey paid for it, cheap cheap cheap.:unknown
Makes you wonder why no one else is buying them, could it be that there are better systems available.
Leclerc?not now and not in the future:nutkick
the Al-Khalid:more interested in the armor technology
LEO II not more,cause this could threaten the indigenious MBT programm
K9:yes it is a good system!a little more cheap then the PzH2000 and NEARLY as powerful(range similar,10 t less weight,same engine,less ammo 48< 60)
both used in real combat?NO!.......and to add:do you really think that germany would have let it be licenced produced
nfloorl: K9 no other customer:well there are currently many artillery systems,dont wanna count them,because,IMO,there is a trend towards light/wheeled artillery system in the near future or not
to add another thing: not everything we develope or is under developement is also known,you should know that best from the US DARK PROGRAMM,for example the chinese/turkish B611 missile or the licenced WS1/Kasirga surface-to-surface missile(because the US would not let licence produce the MLRS system
)it could be that you did not notice,but there is a trend in turkish arms purchase towards local production/developement with "friendly" countries like South Korea and Pakistan.
i know that this is not going to happen tomorrow or next month/year,but it will happen or has happened.
but now back topic
do you have any sources which state that the infos blue shark has given to us are wrong?i mean esspecially the licenced agreement!!!hmm
PERHAPS there are some for the prototypes
,but the production vehicles?guess no!do you think that South Korea is not able to develope the items the XK-2 uses for example by further developing the items it has used on the K1/K1A1?:skorea
Blue Shark,
I don't think you've been introduced to the rules yet:
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/rules.php
Everybody, please keep your tone down and try to respect each other even when expressing different opinion!
I don't think you've been introduced to the rules yet:
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/rules.php
Everybody, please keep your tone down and try to respect each other even when expressing different opinion!
You saw it on the Discovery channel?well that of israel beeing the founder of the auto-tracking-system,well i saw it on discovery channel:unknown
Leclerc?not now and not in the future:nutkick
the Al-Khalid:more interested in the armor technology
LEO II not more,cause this could threaten the indigenious MBT programm
K9:yes it is a good system!a little more cheap then the PzH2000 and NEARLY as powerful(range similar,10 t less weight,same engine,less ammo 48< 60)
both used in real combat?NO!.......and to add:do you really think that germany would have let it be licenced produced
K9 no other customer:well there are currently many artillery systems,dont wanna count them,because,IMO,there is a trend towards light/wheeled artillery system in the near future or not
to add another thing: not everything we develope or is under developement is also known,you should know that best from the US DARK PROGRAMM,for example the chinese/turkish B611 missile or the licenced WS1/Kasirga surface-to-surface missile(because the US would not let licence produce the MLRS system
it could be that you did not notice,but there is a trend in turkish arms purchase towards local production/developement with "friendly" countries like South Korea and Pakistan.
i know that this is not going to happen tomorrow or next month/year,but it will happen or has happened.
but now back topic
do you have any sources which state that the infos blue shark has given to us are wrong?i mean esspecially the licenced agreement!!!hmm
PERHAPS there are some for the prototypes
And they told you that the Merkava was the first tank to have it or that TAAS is the original designer, well that would put the first Merkava model with this feature at the year 1990 and they placed it on the Merkava 3.
Have you ever heard of of a couple of companies called Fujitsu and NEC, they came out with this technology back in the early eighties, placed it on Japans Type 90, first proto types rolled off of production in 1984. And the kicker is, that the only thing that they borrowed technology wise would be the 120mm German gun that they build under license and the armor protection which is classified. I guess the Discovery channel did not add that in for it`s viewers.
PZH2000 is the best self propelled artillery piece in the world and the K-9 is nothing more than a enlarged M109 with a longer gun.
You betcha South Korea is fully capable of fine tuning other countries technologies, Samsung will do them proud.
hmm,the K9 nothing more than a enlarged M109?what makes you think to say that?
just a little comparison M109-K9
range 30 km to 40 km
weight 25t to 46t
ammo 36 to 48
crew 6 to 5
405 hp to 1000 hp
K9 automatic projectiles loaded and charges loaded manually
K9 time on target procedures 3 rounds at target at once,don´t know about the M109:unknown
but,plz tell me,where is the enlarged M109?
so,what is the PzH 2000 then?an even larger M109?get my point?
: yes the PzH is currently the best artillery system,but there is not much difference between the PzH2000 and K9 if you just look at the NUMBERS!!
blue_shark
New Member
the rules? for whom? for the Westerners?
I wonder you read all replies posted this thread?
respect each other? how can I repset one who is look down Korean and me?
I gave them pics of 120/55 gun and official data about XK2 tank. and they toldl me it's all foreign technologies.
nfloorl: Ok, now I won't post any replies here and upload any pics and videos concerning RoK Armed Forces. I decided following the RUELS here.
and I already deleted XK2 tank pics and videos, also K1A1 pics.
Adios~
mate, the rules apply to everyone - and don't assume that everyone is a westerner just because of the flag under their details.the rules? for whom? for the Westerners?
manners are required of everyone - and its not an excuse to lose yours just because you feel agrieved.
@Blue Shark
Just because I may not agree with you on some of this discussion doesn`t mean that I have a bad view point in-regards to South Korea or you.
Do you know what it means for a country to be able to produce their own weapons platforms, that is a tall order to accomplish and South Korea has manged to achieve that, and now they are at a point to where they are going on to the world market and selling, even the U.S is looking at the jet trainers that you produce for training our own air crews.
Practically every country out there borrows technology from other countries and applies that knowledge to their systems including the U.S and Russia.
Can South Korea improve on some of that technology and use it, you bet.
Welcome to Defence talk and I hope that you change your mind and hang around.
Just because I may not agree with you on some of this discussion doesn`t mean that I have a bad view point in-regards to South Korea or you.
Do you know what it means for a country to be able to produce their own weapons platforms, that is a tall order to accomplish and South Korea has manged to achieve that, and now they are at a point to where they are going on to the world market and selling, even the U.S is looking at the jet trainers that you produce for training our own air crews.
Practically every country out there borrows technology from other countries and applies that knowledge to their systems including the U.S and Russia.
Can South Korea improve on some of that technology and use it, you bet.
Welcome to Defence talk and I hope that you change your mind and hang around.
This is why you were warned... your attitude. Take responsibility of what you said and move on, we will take care of others who have said things in reply to yours.the rules? for whom? for the Westerners?
I wonder you read all replies posted this thread?
respect each other? how can I repset one who is look down Korean and me?
I gave them pics of 120/55 gun and official data about XK2 tank. and they toldl me it's all foreign technologies.
Ok, now I won't post any replies here and upload any pics and videos concerning RoK Armed Forces. I decided following the RUELS here.
and I already deleted XK2 tank pics and videos, also K1A1 pics.
Adios~
The rules apply to everyone. A lot of people were banned including professionals, senior members, people with 2000, 3000 posts, why? Because of their attitude, they conducted themselves in negative way (therefore image of their country) and failure to follow the rules of the board.
As far as pictures, etc. are concerned, they will probably make their way to this site by mature Koreans who know how to stay cool when faced with tough criticism.
Important: NO country is "censored" on DefenceTalk, take that bs out of your mind. Only immature users are censored/banned who hurt their country's image by not following rules of the site.
Enjoy!
All right, throw sand over the fire ok?
This tank, the K-2 will be one of the best tanks in the world with or without foreign technology transfer. I'm Turkish, living in the Netherlands and I know what it means to get influenced technology in your army. Turkey sold 18 SAM systems to the Royal Dutch army worth many million $. The Turkish SAM, you read it correct, Turkish SAM systems, produced in Turkey, has American technology on it. What? The Stinger missile is American. But the work is done by Turks who knows how to work with a screwdriver. Sure there are local designed systems on it, like the electronics. It is not hard anymore today to produce hardware electronics. But producing firmware and software is another question. HAVELSAN produced their own flight simulator woth 30 miln. dollars and exported to South Korea. Why? We have the knowledge. Has this simulator foreign influences? Technology transfer? Sure it will have because first you have to learn to built something not? After that, you are able to made advancement, improvement, corrections, etc.. But first you have to need a basis. All countries are open for tech transfer, including Turkey, USA, Germany, China, Russia and South Korea. Because it is faster and possibly cheaper. Also you are sure that you havn't wasted time in research.
Turkey is about to produce it's first indigenous MBT. How? I shall explain: The vehicle will be produced in Turkey, the tracks will be 100% Turkish, the model/bearing will be 100% Turkish. The 120mm barrel will be of the Israeli type, built in Turkey, yes indigenously produced under license for the Sabra with tech transfer, no bullshit. And now, it will be used as a basis for the real 100% Turkish 120mm gun. Yes with IMI influence, but so wat? No problem on it. The Engine should be Ukranian or German. Possibly license production. The Fire control system would be indigenous, learnt from the Israeli (tech transfer) Knight III FCS. The Turkish tank will use foreign assistance for it's armor. Possibly from Pakistan or South Korea. So, we will use Korean tech, and Korea will use ours. It's trade. Or maybe Pakistani (who got tech transfer from China) or Korean scientist will fly to Turkey to design a new composite armor type for our tank.
The K-2 is a good weapon. Possibly with foreign traces in it's systems. But after the K1, the Koreans learnt enough to built 100% local. Sure with parts will have licensed production. This is not a problem. The 120mm gun is the same on the Leo-2A6, I can see it from the barrel. The Japanese too and the Abrams also have the same gun. The M256 is a license produced version of the Rheinmetall 120mm tank gun. The Turkish NMBT will have Israeli 120mm gun. After some tech transfers, licensed production, the parts will be produced in Turkey. So, it is a Turkish tank with foreign influence on it. So the K-2 also is.
This tank, the K-2 will be one of the best tanks in the world with or without foreign technology transfer. I'm Turkish, living in the Netherlands and I know what it means to get influenced technology in your army. Turkey sold 18 SAM systems to the Royal Dutch army worth many million $. The Turkish SAM, you read it correct, Turkish SAM systems, produced in Turkey, has American technology on it. What? The Stinger missile is American. But the work is done by Turks who knows how to work with a screwdriver. Sure there are local designed systems on it, like the electronics. It is not hard anymore today to produce hardware electronics. But producing firmware and software is another question. HAVELSAN produced their own flight simulator woth 30 miln. dollars and exported to South Korea. Why? We have the knowledge. Has this simulator foreign influences? Technology transfer? Sure it will have because first you have to learn to built something not? After that, you are able to made advancement, improvement, corrections, etc.. But first you have to need a basis. All countries are open for tech transfer, including Turkey, USA, Germany, China, Russia and South Korea. Because it is faster and possibly cheaper. Also you are sure that you havn't wasted time in research.
Turkey is about to produce it's first indigenous MBT. How? I shall explain: The vehicle will be produced in Turkey, the tracks will be 100% Turkish, the model/bearing will be 100% Turkish. The 120mm barrel will be of the Israeli type, built in Turkey, yes indigenously produced under license
for the Sabra with tech transfer, no bullshit. And now, it will be used as a basis for the real 100% Turkish 120mm gun. Yes with IMI influence, but so wat? No problem on it. The Engine should be Ukranian or German. Possibly license production. The Fire control system would be indigenous, learnt from the Israeli (tech transfer) Knight III FCS. The Turkish tank will use foreign assistance for it's armor. Possibly from Pakistan or South Korea. So, we will use Korean tech, and Korea will use ours. It's trade. Or maybe Pakistani (who got tech transfer from China) or Korean scientist will fly to Turkey to design a new composite armor type for our tank.The K-2 is a good weapon. Possibly with foreign traces in it's systems. But after the K1, the Koreans learnt enough to built 100% local. Sure with parts will have licensed production. This is not a problem. The 120mm gun is the same on the Leo-2A6, I can see it from the barrel. The Japanese too and the Abrams also have the same gun. The M256 is a license produced version of the Rheinmetall 120mm tank gun. The Turkish NMBT will have Israeli 120mm gun. After some tech transfers, licensed production, the parts will be produced in Turkey. So, it is a Turkish tank with foreign influence on it. So the K-2 also is.
Well said Sooner - It really says alot about a country that can build it`s own weapons systems. The K-2 will be a good tank and will serve the South Koreans well.All right, throw sand over the fire ok?
This tank, the K-2 will be one of the best tanks in the world with or without foreign technology transfer. I'm Turkish, living in the Netherlands and I know what it means to get influenced technology in your army. Turkey sold 18 SAM systems to the Royal Dutch army worth many million $. The Turkish SAM, you read it correct, Turkish SAM systems, produced in Turkey, has American technology on it. What? The Stinger missile is American. But the work is done by Turks who knows how to work with a screwdriver. Sure there are local designed systems on it, like the electronics. It is not hard anymore today to produce hardware electronics. But producing firmware and software is another question. HAVELSAN produced their own flight simulator woth 30 miln. dollars and exported to South Korea. Why? We have the knowledge. Has this simulator foreign influences? Technology transfer? Sure it will have because first you have to learn to built something not? After that, you are able to made advancement, improvement, corrections, etc.. But first you have to need a basis. All countries are open for tech transfer, including Turkey, USA, Germany, China, Russia and South Korea. Because it is faster and possibly cheaper. Also you are sure that you havn't wasted time in research.
Turkey is about to produce it's first indigenous MBT. How? I shall explain: The vehicle will be produced in Turkey, the tracks will be 100% Turkish, the model/bearing will be 100% Turkish. The 120mm barrel will be of the Israeli type, built in Turkey, yes indigenously produced under license
The K-2 is a good weapon. Possibly with foreign traces in it's systems. But after the K1, the Koreans learnt enough to built 100% local. Sure with parts will have licensed production. This is not a problem. The 120mm gun is the same on the Leo-2A6, I can see it from the barrel. The Japanese too and the Abrams also have the same gun. The M256 is a license produced version of the Rheinmetall 120mm tank gun. The Turkish NMBT will have Israeli 120mm gun. After some tech transfers, licensed production, the parts will be produced in Turkey. So, it is a Turkish tank with foreign influence on it. So the K-2 also is.