South China Sea thoughts?

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
chinese militia and guard vessels abandoned the area a few days back - a symbolic gesture to help duterte save face and secure their geopolitical position

china announced today that there had been no change however on ownership etc...
Thanks and apparently Malaysia is following Duertes course with Najib prostrating himself at Xi's feet because China is not investigating him over missing monies. [Sarcasm off]
KUALA LUMPUR, Oct. 30 (Xinhua) -- Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak has stated his commitment to develop Malaysia's "strong and stable" relations with China, saying he intends to ensure that "it continuously improves and reaches new heights."

In an exclusive interview with Xinhua ahead of his official visit to China starting on Monday, Najib said he regards China "as a true friend and a strategic partner" and the relationship between Malaysia and China has "created benefits not just for the people of our two nations but also for regional stability and harmony."

"It is a relationship I am personally committed to; not just as the Prime Minister of Malaysia, but also as the son of Tun Razak -- our former Prime Minister who first established diplomatic relations with China 42 years ago," he said in written responses to Xinhua.

Reiterating that the relationship between the two "has entered a special phase," Najib said he could not agree more with Chinese President Xi Jinping, who compared China's relations with Malaysia "as being as close as lips are to teeth" and Premier Li Keqiang, who recognized Malaysia as a "good neighbor, good partner and a good friend."
Interview: Malaysian PM aims "new heights" in bilateral relations for China visit - Xinhua | English.news.cn
Apparently Malaysia is going to acquire coastal defence ships from China also. This is the weakening of the ASEAN "resolve".
 

weaponwh

Member
Trade sanctions could ultimately be a good thing, and give some other growing economies in the region some impetus. I watch this situation with growing concern.
can't sanction them if they haven't invade/attack any country for no reason. even then its hard to sanction one of the largest export/import, it will put world econ into recession. But that also mean they wont do something aggressive due to their own economy concern.

as for phillippine/malasia, they are looking out for their own countries interest, playing a balance relationship rather leaning too much on either side.
 

Tsavo Lion

Banned Member
The Chinese Coast Guard is a LOT more than just a simple law enforcement agency. It is generally viewed as having a very aggressive and deniable role in enforcing/expanding the Chinese control of the SCS.
True, but it's not that different from the USCG- look up its history from WWI! The CG & the US Navy always help & augment each other whenever it's practical; I won't be surprised if in the future this CG is merged with the Navy (but remains distinct as a civilian entity perhaps called "Naval CG auxiliary") to avoid duplication of effort & save $. Besides, the US Navy already employs civilian mariners and security personnel on its Sea Lift Command ships.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
Apparently Malaysia is going to acquire coastal defence ships from China also. This is the weakening of the ASEAN "resolve".
The order for the 4 ships is aimed at strengthening ties and is also driven by the fact insufficient funds have been allocated for the ships to be ordered elsewhere. The Chinese were the only ones who could deliver the ships under the allocated budget. It's confirmed that the engines will be MTUs and will also contain other Western sourced gear but to keep things cheap the ships will be fitted with various Chinese gear.
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Thanks and apparently Malaysia is following Duertes course with Najib prostrating himself at Xi's feet because China is not investigating him over missing monies. [Sarcasm off]

Apparently Malaysia is going to acquire coastal defence ships from China also. This is the weakening of the ASEAN "resolve".
I don't think this is a very big shift. Lots of countries and companies buy ships off China. Malaysia has Russian and US gear. Seems like a fairly harmless engagement. Its not like they are leaving the FPDA and given up all territorial claims.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
China has been trying hard to sell Malaysia military gear. Since the 1990's. It was only a few years ago that China secured its first sale of military gear to the country : a small batch of FN-6 MANPADs.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
The order for the 4 ships is aimed at strengthening ties and is also driven by the fact insufficient funds have been allocated for the ships to be ordered elsewhere. The Chinese were the only ones who could deliver the ships under the allocated budget. It's confirmed that the engines will be MTUs and will also contain other Western sourced gear but to keep things cheap the ships will be fitted with various Chinese gear.
Indo Defence 2016: PT PAL signs MoU with Boustead to build Malaysian Navy ship in Indonesia | IHS Jane's 360

I also agree budget perhaps the main factor on why Malaysia goes to China for that litoral defence ships. Just like what Boustead and Pal cooperating to make Multi Role Support Ships.

The agreement seems indicated that the 1st ship will be build in Pal facility while 2nd and 3rd ships will be in Boulstead facility with some modules frm Pal. I believe Malaysia are looking on similar arrangement with China on that Litoral Defence ships, where the 1st 4 build in China and the rest build in Malaysia.

This proposed MRSS to Malaysia will be bigger than existing TNI AL Makasar class LPD where it will be based. Makasar only 125 m whille this MRSS will be 150 m. Some speculation based on what RMN wants indicated the final design can be up to 160+m.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
Big ticket defence orders placed by Malaysia are heavily driven by political factors. A prime example is the 1990's deal for CN-235s; with Indonesia reciprocating by buying Malaysian products. The deal was intended to improve ties and to stimulate increase trade between both countries.

As for the 4 ships ordered from China; 2 will be constructed in China, with the remaining 2 in Malaysia. In remains to be seen if the MOU for the Multi-Role Support Ships will lead to a firm order being placed as at the moment, no cash has been allocated for the programme. A lot of MOUs get signed but few actually progress to firm orders :]
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Singapore turn .

Singapore may prove a tough nut for China to crack over regional security | Reuters

Sorry I put this article in here just to shown that more and more China try to push it's pressure to any SEA countries that China sees not want to 'followed' the 'directives'..
It might be due to Singaporean 'military cooperation' with Taiwan..but also,I do believe because Singapore do suport 'freedom' passage on SCS..that not in line with supporting China claimant..

One that I want to ask for Singaporean members in here is that looking to some 'internet' comments in Singapore media or forum..seems not 'few' of those comments blamed the Singaporean government..
Well just want to know what the real Singaporean public feel on China..So far I saw Singaporean 'quite pride' and nationalistic on their country..thus the moved like China did..which certaintly is part of political 'bullying'..should been reacted negatively by Singaporean..
Bit surprise that some Singaporean take China side on this..
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Singapore may prove a tough nut for China to crack over regional security | Reuters

Sorry I put this article in here just to shown that more and more China try to push it's pressure to any SEA countries that China sees not want to 'followed' the 'directives'..
It might be due to Singaporean 'military cooperation' with Taiwan..but also,I do believe because Singapore do suport 'freedom' passage on SCS..that not in line with supporting China claimant..

One that I want to ask for Singaporean members in here is that looking to some 'internet' comments in Singapore media or forum..seems not 'few' of those comments blamed the Singaporean government..
Well just want to know what the real Singaporean public feel on China..So far I saw Singaporean 'quite pride' and nationalistic on their country..thus the moved like China did..which certaintly is part of political 'bullying'..should been reacted negatively by Singaporean..
Bit surprise that some Singaporean take China side on this..
I just wonder why Singapore decided to transport the APC with a ship making a transit in Hongkong, its a part of Communist China and the Chinese can do what ever they want with Singapore's military stuff. But maybe such transports already existed for many years, without any problems...
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
It might be due to Singaporean 'military cooperation' with Taiwan..but also,I do believe because Singapore do suport 'freedom' passage on SCS..that not in line with supporting China claimant..
It is largely to do with the fact that China is increasing the pressure on Taiwan by trying to isolate it diplomatically and influence the way other conduct their dealings with Taiwan. I fail to see how it is connected to Singapore's policy of supporting freedom of passage for all in the South China Sea; a policy which is adopted by everyone.
 

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
I just wonder why Singapore decided to transport the APC with a ship making a transit in Hongkong, its a part of Communist China and the Chinese can do what ever they want with Singapore's military stuff. But maybe such transports already existed for many years, without any problems...
I gather because someone just looked for the cheapest transport contract available on the market and didn't care or think about possible problems of a stopover in mainland China.
 

Ranger25

Active Member
Staff member
I gather because someone just looked for the cheapest transport contract available on the market and didn't care or think about possible problems of a stopover in mainland China.
I unfortunately agree. The manufacturer should have thought it through better indeed
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
It is largely to do with the fact that China is increasing the pressure on Taiwan by trying to isolate it diplomatically and influence the way other conduct their dealings with Taiwan. I fail to see how it is connected to Singapore's policy of supporting freedom of passage for all in the South China Sea; a policy which is adopted by everyone.
Well Singapore do more than that..Changi is the based for US LCS ship..that continue patroling SCS. Plus with Taiwan and Singapore continue military relationship..China seems try to put pressure on anyone in neighbourhood that 'dare' (in their view) still in 'line of policy' that potentially 'stab' China back..

Still engaging Taiwan..Plus provide infrastructure that supporting US SCS policy..whille still doing business with China..definetely not working well with some more 'hawkish' Chinese policy makers.

Frm what I read Singapore already transporting their military equipment 'to'and 'frm' Taiwan using 'legit' civilian shipping lines for sometime..China should knows that..and conviscating 'items' that on board civilian ships that have no intention to be loaded in Hong Kong..is in my opinion risking 'ruined' Hong Kong reputation as safe international commercial hub..just to shown 'arrogance' toward smaller country..
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
I gather because someone just looked for the cheapest transport contract available on the market and didn't care or think about possible problems of a stopover in mainland China.
Agree..Singapore military ussually conduct in more 'calculative' risk management..but perhaps because they (frm what I gather) already done it several times before..using similar method.

Perhaps some in Singapore bit 'fell' in thinking China 'ok' with that..or perhaps they think that's Hong Kong afterall..the suposedly 'safe' International Commercial hub (just like Singapore does)..thus putting on their own perspective..that like them,the Hong Kong authority will not doing confiscation on the 'cargo' that 'only' stop over their port (to maintain their 'safe-reliable' commercial hub status)..

Well this shown that Hong Kong is not 'Hong Kong' anymore..it's become 'just' another Chinese ports. Thus will follow any 'whim' frm Beijing.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
Well Singapore do more than that..Changi is the based for US LCS ship..that continue patroling SCS. Plus with Taiwan and Singapore continue military relationship..China seems try to put pressure on anyone in neighbourhood that 'dare' (in their view) still in 'line of policy' that potentially 'stab' China back..
As you said : ''anyone''. ''Anyone'' with too close ties with Taiwan would get the same treatment. It's Chinese policy to ensure Taiwan doesn't get too ''independent'' and that countries don't get too ''friendly'' with Taiwan. A too close a relationship - from a Chinese perspective - would be in violation of the ''One China'' policy and would embolden the Taiwanese. The fact that Singapore has close ties with Uncle Sam [others do as well it's just that the relationship is not so ''public''] is nothing new as is its relationship with Taiwan.The Chinese probably felt that now is the right time to publicly send a strong signal indicating their displeasure; to Singapore and Taiwan.

Way before Singapore agreed to play host to USN ships there was already a small U.S. military logistics team based in Singapore [to support visiting U.S. assets] and when Changi naval base was built they made sure there was berthing space large and deep enough to accommodate visiting USN carriers [I remember reading this years ago]. Back in the 1990's when the U.S. pulled out from the Philippines and started looking at Singapore as a new base; Singapore welcomed the move but Malaysia and Indonesia didn't.

Frm what I read Singapore already transporting their military equipment 'to'and 'frm' Taiwan using 'legit' civilian shipping lines for sometime.
No surprises. It's often more practical and cheaper to use commercial means to lift heavy gear rather than military assets. Some years ago some SAF gear which was deployed to Australia for an exercise was flown in using a Malaysian [MAS Cargo] company.
 

Ranger25

Active Member
Staff member
PRC ship siezes USN UUV

Will be interesting to see how the new American President handles activities like this.


A U.S. Navy unmanned buoyancy glider was taken by Chinese forces in international waters earlier this week, two defense officials confirmed to USNI News on Friday.

The glider was operating with U.S. Military Sealift Command ship USNS Bowditch (T-AGS-62) about 50 miles off of Subic Bay in the Philippines when a People’s Liberation Army Navy ship took the glider both defense officals said.

“A Chinese naval ship that had been shadowing the Bowditch put a small boat into the water. That small boat came up alongside and the Chinese crew took one of the drones,” CNN reported on Friday

lbs_glider

“The Chinese navy ship ASR-510, a Dalang III-class ship, approached within 500 yards of the Bowditch, launched a small boat, and seized the UUV,” the Pentagon said in a statement reported the BBC


https://news.usni.org/2016/12/16/breaking-chinese-seize-u-s-navy-unmanned-vehicle
 
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