- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #21
Try neither of those in closed quarters. The M-14 is the worst weapon to use in a building or closed space.
Should the M16 be replaced?
- Thread starter Sgt.Banes
- Start date
Barnes as far As I know the only other rifle that they have developed that strayed away from the basic functionality of the original is the an-94 Abakan. This gun has not went into production as far as I know. It was desighned with a opposing barrel/reciever moving in opposite direction of the bolt and carrier to counter recoil.
I think devopement of the ak47 over the years has taking a few different directions. As you know many different countrys manufactured them . All of them made slight changes but none strayed to far from the original. As far as russia is concerned it kinda developed like this..
original ak-47 billet steel reciever, 7.62x39 caliber
akm-47 (M stands for modern)stamped reciever, 7.62x39 caliber
ak-74 stamped reciever 5.45x39 caliber, new flash surpressor. This is in widespread use to this day.
Then there are all the variations like some with under folder stocks, side folding stocks, A short version called the krinkov or aka krink for short. Kinda like the m4 is to the m16 but even shorter. But to set here and list all the variations would give me writers cramp..lol
I think devopement of the ak47 over the years has taking a few different directions. As you know many different countrys manufactured them . All of them made slight changes but none strayed to far from the original. As far as russia is concerned it kinda developed like this..
original ak-47 billet steel reciever, 7.62x39 caliber
akm-47 (M stands for modern)stamped reciever, 7.62x39 caliber
ak-74 stamped reciever 5.45x39 caliber, new flash surpressor. This is in widespread use to this day.
Then there are all the variations like some with under folder stocks, side folding stocks, A short version called the krinkov or aka krink for short. Kinda like the m4 is to the m16 but even shorter. But to set here and list all the variations would give me writers cramp..lol
I have just talked to this guy who I have nothing but respect for. He has active duty time and is now a SSG in the Army Reserves as a platoon sgt with two Iraq rotations under his belt. He stated that the M4 is a excellant urban weapon due to the size and he gives it nothing but praise, as far as knock down power goes he say`s the only penetration issues that he has seen is when they have engaged enemy combatants who are wearing body armor, and it is his opinion it doesn`t matter what caliber you use, even if you get hit while you are wearing body armor a 5.56mm round while still knock the crap out you and you won`t be in it for the fight any time soon.
As far as our military using M14`s goes, he stated that this was not a standard practice with his Division and was not aware of their use. Weapons for sniper duties were Remington 700`s and Bartlet 50 cal sniping set ups. He also stated that this doesn`t mean that they were not in use because some of the specialized units carried a variety of fire arms.
Also the m14 isnt really being brought out of retirement for cqb. It is being used when they need something with a little more punch at longer ranges outdoors. This is the reason why usually only one guy in the unit has it and he is someone that has show he is a very good shot. This person is not a sniper really, but what the army calls the designated marksman. Its pretty simple logic actually.
I agree with you friend on the m4 it is a excellent weapon. I must think so becuase I have 5 of them lol. Well the civilian version anyways with the 16in barrel versus the 14.5 of the true m4. Its as close as you can get anyways without paying a tax stamp. I had 6 of them but recently sold one to get funds to buy a sig 556.
Also im not talking about sniping. Sniping is more than a gun, Its about field craft . Like working in to position to take a shot, staying there for days waiting, reading the wind and judging distance, escape after the shot. What we are talking about in the dmr is a guy thats in a regular unit that carries a rifle with more range . Totally different practice.
Last edited:
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #26
The AN-94 is in production, I recall the company name as being Izhmash. And my name is Banes not Barnes lol.
That was a typo get over it. So your saying the an-94 is in production ? Can you show me where the russians are doing a force wide replacement? Even if they did I really dont see where it gives them some huge advantage on the battlefield.
Im gonna say this and try and put it a simply as I can, then im done with this thread.
In the United States Army there are certain individual soldiers that are using the m14 as a designated marksmans rifle. Dont make the mistake of thinking that Im saying this is a Army wide replacement for the m4/m16 rifle. Im not talking about snipers who use the m-24,m40 (Marine Corps), or barrett 50 cal. These are regular infantry. 2ID was one of the divisions mentioned. These are m14 rifles that mostly were pulled right out of Army inventory and fitted with a scope mount and scope. Some guys have equipped them with other stuff like the sage stock, aimpoints,, eotechs, or whatever else they can get there hands on.
As to you original question. My 2 cents is that the m4 is a fine weapon. Has some of the best ergos of any rifle ever built. I think the correct path would be to do some upgrades on this platform and not do a wholesale replacement.
Like a piston operated upper like the colt LE1020 or the HK416. This would improve reliability and the soldier could keep the weapon that he was trained and become familiar with. I also think this would be cheaper than a full replacement. None of this stuff is new by the way, Colt built a piston upper years ago with no interest shown from the millitary.
Peace out
Im gonna say this and try and put it a simply as I can, then im done with this thread.
In the United States Army there are certain individual soldiers that are using the m14 as a designated marksmans rifle. Dont make the mistake of thinking that Im saying this is a Army wide replacement for the m4/m16 rifle. Im not talking about snipers who use the m-24,m40 (Marine Corps), or barrett 50 cal. These are regular infantry. 2ID was one of the divisions mentioned. These are m14 rifles that mostly were pulled right out of Army inventory and fitted with a scope mount and scope. Some guys have equipped them with other stuff like the sage stock, aimpoints,, eotechs, or whatever else they can get there hands on.
As to you original question. My 2 cents is that the m4 is a fine weapon. Has some of the best ergos of any rifle ever built. I think the correct path would be to do some upgrades on this platform and not do a wholesale replacement.
Like a piston operated upper like the colt LE1020 or the HK416. This would improve reliability and the soldier could keep the weapon that he was trained and become familiar with. I also think this would be cheaper than a full replacement. None of this stuff is new by the way, Colt built a piston upper years ago with no interest shown from the millitary.
Peace out
Thank you for the information that you shared, you know your small arms, and as I said before it is good to see the trusty M14 still soldiering on.
Which part of Michigan are you from?
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #30
I merely pointed out a spelling error no need to get flustered. But I never said the AN-94 was in the process of being replaced, you mentioned it in a earlier post and just corrected you since you did say that it wasn't in production. The M-4 indeed is a reliable weapon, but it's still not reliable as a field rifle. Not to mention its not used for regular infantry, it's primarily used by special forces.
But back on the M-16, I admit that it would be more cheaper to maintain the rifle for however long. But I want to simply point out that the U.S. armed forces should simply start looking for a practical replacement. Those are my two cents.
Last edited:
The Millitary has looked into replacing it, theres the xm8 program and the scar competition to look for a replacement rifle for socom.
Also the m4 was not originally made for special forces it was deisghned for soldiers that need more fire power than a pistol but something more compact than a full sized rifle like truck drivers and tankers. I agree that SF uses this rifle as they found its compact size also fit a need they had for a more compact rifle that could more easily defeat body armor, not to mention more knock down power than a traditional sub machine gun firing pistol caliber ammunition. Not to mention that there are numerous law enforcement agency's turning in there mp-5 sub guns for the m4. Also there are numerous light infantry divisions in the US army that are not SF that are using the m4 like the 101st, 82nd, 10th mountain.
The M16/M4 could and can be updated to make it the most reliable gun there is. Colt has went to the government on several occasions with ideas to update these rifles. But they continue to want them built according to the technical data sheet.
Areas where the M16/M4 could be improved
1)Gas piston system to replace the Direct gas system.
2)Improve the extractor with a more robust desighn.
3)Redesighn the bolt to have less locking lugs. This would affect accuracy some. But make it more reliable.
4)Equip them all with a rail system. This doesnt really affect reliability but makes it more flexible.
This can be done without the purchase of a whole new rifle. Only the upper reciever assy would need replacement. You can't get much better ergonomics. This would bring it into the future and make it arguably the best assault rifle in the world and it can be done for less money than buying a whole new rifle. Or they can just scrap them all and give eveyone a brand new FN SCAR-L or SCAR-H..lol
Also the m4 was not originally made for special forces it was deisghned for soldiers that need more fire power than a pistol but something more compact than a full sized rifle like truck drivers and tankers. I agree that SF uses this rifle as they found its compact size also fit a need they had for a more compact rifle that could more easily defeat body armor, not to mention more knock down power than a traditional sub machine gun firing pistol caliber ammunition. Not to mention that there are numerous law enforcement agency's turning in there mp-5 sub guns for the m4. Also there are numerous light infantry divisions in the US army that are not SF that are using the m4 like the 101st, 82nd, 10th mountain.
The M16/M4 could and can be updated to make it the most reliable gun there is. Colt has went to the government on several occasions with ideas to update these rifles. But they continue to want them built according to the technical data sheet.
Areas where the M16/M4 could be improved
1)Gas piston system to replace the Direct gas system.
2)Improve the extractor with a more robust desighn.
3)Redesighn the bolt to have less locking lugs. This would affect accuracy some. But make it more reliable.
4)Equip them all with a rail system. This doesnt really affect reliability but makes it more flexible.
This can be done without the purchase of a whole new rifle. Only the upper reciever assy would need replacement. You can't get much better ergonomics. This would bring it into the future and make it arguably the best assault rifle in the world and it can be done for less money than buying a whole new rifle. Or they can just scrap them all and give eveyone a brand new FN SCAR-L or SCAR-H..lol
Last edited:
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #32
I wouldn't mind SCAR-H, but that's just me.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #34
Doesn't it come with some kind of SAW modifications?I would like a couple of each myself.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #36
As in could you remove the barrel in order to add a SAW or light machine gun barrel to it. I think the Steyr has a system similar to what I stated.
USNavySEAL3310
New Member
Rule of thumb I've established based on what I've heard as well as from experience:
M-16: long range, used on the line, open ground warfare
M-4: short range (long w/scope), used in urban warfare, smaller environments
M-16: long range, used on the line, open ground warfare
M-4: short range (long w/scope), used in urban warfare, smaller environments
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #38
That's pretty much the actual usage for those two.
jamesteo320
New Member
anybody knows whether an ak103 can be fitted with a scope and laser aiming device.
thank you
thank you
It can be fitted with pretty anything. Ak-103 is basicaly AK-74M modifired to 7.62 calibre with modern fitting slots.