Russian Navy Discussions and Updates

[SkolZkiy]

I searched RuNet for info about possible replacement of P-700 Granit - there are rumors about new heavy missile with index P-1200 but something usefull info is out there =)))
Onix has much shoter range and couldn't be used for rearmament of missiles-subs and heavy warships such as Kirov class which need missiles with bigger range to withstand aircarrier groups of US - that is their main task.

And Onix is a good supersonic ASM with guidence system similar to Granit but it has twice lower range.

 

[Feanor]

Just trying to to figure out how this works.

Hi. Welcome to defencetalk. I see this is your first post. Please do post in the introductions thread in the Intros and Off-Topic forum.

To clarify what you're asking about, the Kirov carries the S-300F and a number of smaller SAM and AAA. All of that is linked up to the ships command.

I do not know for a fact that it can datalink with the SAMs of other ships in a taskforce, but given the ease that land-based S-300 can communicate with one another via command posts, and even with other SAMs, I'm assuming that similar capability is present in the Kirov. It's only natural to consider it a C3 node for a naval taskforce.

Finally even regardless of datalink capabilities it still carries a very formidable number of SAMs. That alone makes it a necessary part of teh VMF.

 

[Salty Dog]

I think the new Onyx (SS-N-26) was slated for that, or possible the new BrahMos missile.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PJ-10_BrahMos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-800_Oniks

AFAIK the SS-N-19 Granit replacement is the SS-N-26 Yakhont/Oniks P-800. I do not believe RuN has any intention of utilizing the Brahmos.

 

[kev 99]

Werent the Russians not too keen on deploying the short range Brahmos on their ships ?

Does Onics have tht swarm guidance mode tht the granit has where one missile designates targets to the other while inflight in anti intercept mode ?

Besides Granit still has an upper range of 650 kms

Doesn't it have a range of 290KM? That's hardly short ranged for an Anti Ship Missile.

 

[SkolZkiy]

BrahMos is joint development and according to international agreements cannot have range more then 300 km.
P-700 Granit is a heavy may be even strategic anti-ship missile with nuclear warhead and practical range 550km (max 650 km) - it was designed against US aircarriers groups.
Don't you see difference??

 

[kev 99]

Yes I can see the difference, my point is that BrahMos is only a short range anti ship missile when you compare it against Granit or Bazalt, it has similar range to most weapons on the market.

 

[tphuang]

Yes I can see the difference, my point is that BrahMos is only a short range anti ship missile when you compare it against Granit or Bazalt, it has similar range to most weapons on the market.

actually, any range past a certain point is pretty much useless. How are you even going to target something beyond visual range? In real practice, having such a bulky missile (even if its fast) has a lot of disadvantages too.

 

[funtz]

actually, any range past a certain point is pretty much useless. How are you even going to target something beyond visual range? In real practice, having such a bulky missile (even if its fast) has a lot of disadvantages too.

Airborne radar platforms giving a confirmed coordinates and identifying the target for the fire control system.

Having a fast missiles is useful if its accurate (the recent tests as a LACM fpr Navy and Army), otherwise its as useful as a dart.

 

[dragonfire]

Doesn't it have a range of 290KM? That's hardly short ranged for an Anti Ship Missile.

If the russian options are Brahmos, Oniks and Granit. Then why should russia buy brahmos from the brahmos corp. It was developed from the Oniks as such, current operational brahmos are only slightly faster than Oniks, i.e.. till the hypersonic brahmos becomes operational.

 

[dragonfire]

actually, any range past a certain point is pretty much useless. How are you even going to target something beyond visual range? In real practice, having such a bulky missile (even if its fast) has a lot of disadvantages too.

Is this aplicable for cruise missiles - wouldnt they have additional target acquisition systems as well as have mid course correction features. Wasnt there a ramjet variant/ experiment on the Granit which could take its speed to Mach 4 range, and am guessing the overall weight could perhaps be brought down if a ramjet option is excercised compared to the normal rocket propulsion or perhaps even the turbojet engine - am not sure though

 

[kev 99]

actually, any range past a certain point is pretty much useless. How are you even going to target something beyond visual range? In real practice, having such a bulky missile (even if its fast) has a lot of disadvantages too.

I was deliberately leaving that argument alone.

If the russian options are Brahmos, Oniks and Granit. Then why should russia buy brahmos from the brahmos corp. It was developed from the Oniks as such, current operational brahmos are only slightly faster than Oniks, i.e.. till the hypersonic brahmos becomes operational.

This is a much better reason for not inducting the missile, however if assurances have been given to India over inducting Brahmos then it is also duplicitous.

 

[yasin_khan]

Russian Navy to receive two new stealth warships in 2010-11


The Russian Navy is to receive two corvettes equipped with stealth technology in 2010 and 2011, a spokesman for the United Shipbuilding Corporation said on Thursday.
St. Petersburg's Severnaya Verf shipyard started construction of the Soobrazitelny in 2003 and the Stoiky in 2006.
Designed by the Almaz Central Marine Design Bureau, they will be the second and third in the Project 20380 series, after the Steregushchy, which was put into service in 2007.
Russia plans to have up to 20 vessels of this class to ensure the protection of its coastal waters, as well as its oil and gas transportation routes, especially in the Black and the Baltic seas.
Each corvette has a displacement of 2,000 metric tons, maximum speed of 27 knots, crew of 100 and is equipped with stealth technology.




http://en.rian.ru/russia/20090122/119758489.html



Atlast they have put some thing new in costal defence fleet they where using 25 year old ships.

 

[SkolZkiy]

these ships are not "stealth" they just use some technologies to reduce radiovisibility. I think that is important=)

 

[Feanor]

You mean.... radar visibility, i.e. RCS reduction. In common language the term stealth implies exactly that, largely reduced RCS.

 

[SkolZkiy]

Hmmm it's an easy question.
Guys have anyone links for news about second Kirov class that is ben right now repairing??

 

[dragonfire]

News Update
Russia plans Naval Base in Abkhazia

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jHFE9yWgdFuRT1SvKzxi4s_FQVOQD95V28M80

Apparently the Abkhazian President has okyed it but there are no written agreements as such, the work will start this year on it, this is to counter balance georgia as well

 

[Feanor]

There are iirc 3 planned bases in Abkhazia. One at the ex-Soviet naval base in Ochamchira, one at the Kodori Gorge, and one at Guaduta (the ex-Soviet airbase).

 

[dragonfire]

There are iirc 3 planned bases in Abkhazia. One at the ex-Soviet naval base in Ochamchira, one at the Kodori Gorge, and one at Guaduta (the ex-Soviet airbase).

Any ideas what kind of vessels/assets will be deployed there as such, and does this have a significance of russia probably going to lose the base in Ukraine

- tnks in advance

 

[Feanor]

Small coastal patrol ships, minesweepers, rocket-boats, etc. Nothing major. It's too close to Russia to need major assets (they can be relocated fairly quickly from Novorossiysk, or even Crimea), and the area is too close to hostile Georgia to be a large scale peacetime base. It would be within artillery range of Georgian field guns.

 

[dragonfire]

No subs ? well i guess no point as such - i wonder what will happen to the black sea fleet