Russian Navy Discussions and Updates

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Admiral Nikolai Evmenov, Commander-in-Chief of VMF has reported that the VMF "successfully completed all the tasks of combat and operational training set for 2022". As H I Sutton states does this include the sinking of the Slava Class cruiser Moskva?

It was an unplanned "success". They exceeded their performance quotas. In all seriousness it's a great example of why hanging on to Soviet-era large surface combatants with minimal upgrades and repairs doesn't work. The VMF needs to face the reality that their future fleet is going to be a mix of 22350s and 20380s, with maybe some 22350Ms in the next decade.

There also needs to be an increased focus on naval armaments including modern torpedoes and mines, and modern minesweepers.
 

Stampede

Well-Known Member
A small article in Naval News re Russia's aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov.


Interesting that this planned upgrade is still going ahead with the military effort required on the Ukraine / Russian boarder conflict.

Will be interesting to see what future this Aircraft carrier has going forward.
With upgrades its apparently good for another 10 years.

If this ship was available today, would it be an asset or a liability operating in the Black sea supporting Russia's current military campaign.
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
A small article in Naval News re Russia's aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov.


Interesting that this planned upgrade is still going ahead with the military effort required on the Ukraine / Russian boarder conflict.

Will be interesting to see what future this Aircraft carrier has going forward.
With upgrades its apparently good for another 10 years.

If this ship was available today, would it be an asset or a liability operating in the Black sea supporting Russia's current military campaign.
I would say liability, can't see an Aircraft Carrier being of that much use to Russia in the Black Sea as there would be no shortage of Airfields on their side. Also, would have needed to be in position at the start of the war as Turkey closed off the Bosphorus Straight to all military vessels within days of the invasion.
I get the feeling with Russia, having an Aircraft Carrier is more about National pride than a genuine military capability.
 

SolarisKenzo

Well-Known Member
Admiral Kuznetsov wont be back in service anytime soon.
Mid-2024 Is probably a realistic timespan, but the real question Is how can the Vessel be useful to the Russian navy.
The Kuznetsov last took the Sea in 2017 and Is in maintenance since late-2017/ early-2018.
So Its taking them 6 years to maintain an already 40 years old conventional aircraft Carrier, with great Money expenditure that could be used somewhere else.
I understand the Prestige of having an aircraft Carrier, and Russia needs this for internal propaganda, but from a technical point of view, the Kuznetsov saga Is barely understandable.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Admiral Kuznetsov wont be back in service anytime soon.
Mid-2024 Is probably a realistic timespan, but the real question Is how can the Vessel be useful to the Russian navy.
The Kuznetsov last took the Sea in 2017 and Is in maintenance since late-2017/ early-2018.
So Its taking them 6 years to maintain an already 40 years old conventional aircraft Carrier, with great Money expenditure that could be used somewhere else.
I understand the Prestige of having an aircraft Carrier, and Russia needs this for internal propaganda, but from a technical point of view, the Kuznetsov saga Is barely understandable.
Never underestimate the power of inertia. In principle Russia is actually going to have, assuming shipbuilding programs don't get derailed, the escorts, in the form of the 22350 frigates. 2 in service, 1 in trials, 5 more under construction, and 2 more contracted. By the end of the decade the Northern Fleet can reasonably expect to have 5-6 of them, that's enough to provide a couple, with a destroyer, to escort the Kuznetsov. The real issue is the extremely poor performance of the carrier itself during its only combat deployment. If Russia had stuck with the Serdyukov reforms, and wasn't bogged down in a high-tech version of WWI in Ukraine, one could make a reasonable argument for an update to the Kuznetsov in a manner that keeps it relevant, and gaps over to a new carrier to be built eventually. But of course everything is in the air now.

EDIT: There was another fire on the Kuznetsov, this one allegedly very small.

 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Like every end of the year the Russian Navy also receive this december several new stuff.
On 21 December the Project 955A Borei-A class Generalissimus Suvorov was after a year of testing and trials commissioned. Four other Project 955As are under construction.
Two days later on 23 December the Project 677 Lada class Velikiye Yuki was launched.

The Neustrashimy has finished the delivery/acceptance tests after its upgrade at the Yantar Shipyard on the Baltic coast in Kaliningrad. It will soon rejoin the Baltic fleet.

During the tests, the shipbuilders checked the warship’s navigation, radar surveillance and target acquisition capabilities, its artillery and anti-aircraft missile systems, steering, damage control, radiation, chemical and biological protection equipment and communications.

The Project 22350 Admiral Gorshkov is back in operation and is ready to take over the command from the Project 22350 Admiral Kasatonov in the Mediterranean Sea.
 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
In other news, the largest floating dock in Russia has arrived, the PD-100. It was built in China.


The 11th 21631 small missile ship was launched.


Powerplants arrived for two more 22800 small missile ships. Note, for the type power plants are the bottleneck. This pair is being built in the Far East for the Pacific fleet.


The third 22350, Admiral Golovko, has begun sea trials. It's the first one with a Russian powerplant.


The 4th 636.3 for the Pacific Fleet enter service.


The 6th 12700 mine trawler enters service with the Pacific Fleet.


Overall the future of the Pacific Fleet looks clear, a few 1155Ms (2-4), 6-10 20380s (optimistically 12), 6 Kilos, and eventually some 885Ms. Possibly some new 22350s, once the Northern Fleet has enough (and one is slated for the Black Sea).
 

Antipode

Member
About the Admiral Kuznetsov. Besides national pride and the (moderate) strategic value of such an asset,

Can’t it be that they just want to keep trained naval pilots and other related personal, instead of having to rebuild from scratch if they see the need of an AC fleet in the future?

And more importantly,

Don’t they need such a platform to develop naval fighters and UAVs for export?

Salud
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
About the Admiral Kuznetsov. Besides national pride and the (moderate) strategic value of such an asset,

Can’t it be that they just want to keep trained naval pilots and other related personal, instead of having to rebuild from scratch if they see the need of an AC fleet in the future?

And more importantly,

Don’t they need such a platform to develop naval fighters and UAVs for export?

Salud
Realistically who are they selling Naval carrier aircraft to? China and India the only 2 countries who would buy Russian are both developing their own aircraft. The Russian Naval Aviation operates a considerable force of Fighters, Strike aircraft and Bombers that operate from land bases so they still possess a decent base to rebuild Carrier aviation from if they went back down that road.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
India's development of its own carrier aircraft has been painfully slow. First prototype naval Tejas flew in 2012, 11 years after the first Tejas, & in 2016 the Indian Navy decided not to procure it, & the project has continued as a technology development programme. A new twin-engined naval fighter was announced in 2021.

The real competition for India's naval fighters isn't with Indian-designed aircraft but between foreign ones, & the IN has been evaluating the F-18E/F & Rafale.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
India's development of its own carrier aircraft has been painfully slow. First prototype naval Tejas flew in 2012, 11 years after the first Tejas, & in 2016 the Indian Navy decided not to procure it, & the project has continued as a technology development programme. A new twin-engined naval fighter was announced in 2021.

The real competition for India's naval fighters isn't with Indian-designed aircraft but between foreign ones, & the IN has been evaluating the F-18E/F & Rafale.
In either case, they're not likely to want to purchase the Kuznetsov.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
India's development of its own carrier aircraft has been painfully slow.
I do believe they already more or less ironing out carrier manufacturing process. From Indian forums, seems the problem derive on so many changing specs from original design that being prepared with the help from Fincantieri.

Similar thing with Tejas development, too many specs changing that being drawn on to Indian notorious bureaucracy process. Still seems if they finally already set on one design, Indian defense industry can then move on with good pace.

either case, they're not likely to want to purchase the Kuznetsov.
Honestly if Russian want to and already have enough resources to go to Kuznetsov replacement, they should swallow their pride and ask help from China. With the Type 03 carrier, basically China already outstrips Russia on carrier design and manufacturing capabilities.

Even if they don't invade Ukraine, PRC and India are the only two potential partner on any defense development projects. Both of them are not needing Russian anymore on carrier design and manufacturing.

China need for Russian tech gaps is decreasing more and more in time by. I do suspect Russian only still have tech advantage in propulsion toward China. China definitely already outstrips Russia on electronics. They do better see the realities and swallow their pride.
 

TayJG

Member
I do believe they already more or less ironing out carrier manufacturing process. From Indian forums, seems the problem derive on so many changing specs from original design that being prepared with the help from Fincantieri.

Similar thing with Tejas development, too many specs changing that being drawn on to Indian notorious bureaucracy process. Still seems if they finally already set on one design, Indian defense industry can then move on with good pace.
If you had to guess, what do you think physically exists for the Tejas Mk2? Do you think a prototype exists or are they still working on its design? I should probably ask you this on another thread.


Honestly if Russian want to and already have enough resources to go to Kuznetsov replacement, they should swallow their pride and ask help from China. With the Type 03 carrier, basically China already outstrips Russia on carrier design and manufacturing capabilities.

Even if they don't invade Ukraine, PRC and India are the only two potential partner on any defense development projects. Both of them are not needing Russian anymore on carrier design and manufacturing.

China need for Russian tech gaps is decreasing more and more in time by. I do suspect Russian only still have tech advantage in propulsion toward China. China definitely already outstrips Russia on electronics. They do better see the realities and swallow their pride.
Oh I had a good laugh at that, not at you, but at the irony of how times have changed.
 
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TayJG

Member
I would just say though, on topic, Russia should just forget about Kuztentzov replacement, just run the current thing into the ground. Russia is too poor to afford anything. Russia's attempts to be the USSR in terms of superpower strength in all forms of weapons is why Russia does not have the forces it needs to beat Ukraine. Too many resources wasted on bombers, navy, ICBM's, crazy technology, etc.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
I would just say though, on topic, Russia should just forget about Kuztentzov replacement, just run the current thing into the ground. Russia is too poor to afford anything. Russia's attempts to be the USSR in terms of superpower strength in all forms of weapons is why Russia does not have the forces it needs to beat Ukraine. Too many resources wasted on bombers, navy, ICBM's, crazy technology, etc.
I'm not sure poverty is the issue, rather the priorities. Russia could field a carrier replacement if this was a priority. But what Russia can't do is field a giant nuclear submarine fleet, gigantic ground forces, a large strategic bomber fleet with both Tu-160Ms and PAK-DAs, 600+ combat jets, and multiple carriers.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Well I notice a few things: Russia is building T-72B3 and not T-90MS, no T-14, plus Russia has taken enormous losses in the war, plus seems to be getting reduced money from sanctions and less sales of natural resources, so I think Russia will not be able to afford to replace Kuzentzov.
Wrong thread, and wrong facts. T-90Ms are very much in production.

EDIT: Moved off-topic discussion to the appropriate thread, Russia and the West.

 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Update.

Russia has decided to build two more LK-60Ya nuclear icebreakers. This would bring total fleet size to 7.


Russia's 6th Borey, 3rd Borey-A, the Generalissimus Suvorov, has entered service.


The Anatoliy Shlemov project 12700 mine trawler has entered service. It's the 7th of the type, the third for the Pacific Fleet. Note, the type is relatively modern but reportedly of poor design in terms of it's primary unmanned submersible. A larger version with a new unmanned submersible was planned, but there has been no talk of it lately. These ships certainly provide better capability then old Soviet trawlers, and would in principle let Russia identify minefields, but likely not clear them.


The VMF receives it's 10th 21631 small missile ship. The type isn't completely useless, but with any sense, production of the type will stop after the current series of 12 is finished. However the shipyard in question is lobbying for an upgraded 21631M to be produced.

 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Russia Decommissions World's Largest Submarine - Naval News
The end of an era with the decommissioning of the last of the Typhoons also known as the Project 941 Akula.
At 175x23x12m and displacing up to 48,000t they were enormous twice the size of the next biggest.
|"The two nuclear reactors will be removed first, followed by the rest of the nuclear installation, then the steel structure will be scrapped. "|
It is understandable that the reactors will be removed, but its sad that the boats will not be preserved as museumboats.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
|"The two nuclear reactors will be removed first, followed by the rest of the nuclear installation, then the steel structure will be scrapped. "|
It is understandable that the reactors will be removed, but its sad that the boats will not be preserved as museumboats.
I don’t think any nuclear sub or surface ship would be suitable as a museum boat from a liability POV alone, especially vessels decommissioned by Russian nuclear safety personnel. Despite being a 40 year military old vessel, there are likely design features that might still be relevant today.

Not aware of any Western SSN(BN) museum boat either.
 
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