Russian Navy Discussions and Updates

Sandhi Yudha

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
At last...thats great news... Thank you for sharing Feanor!
So now its just a couple of months until the first one will be commissioned.

And what about the first of the Project 22350 Admiral Gorshkov-class frigates, also still under trials right?
 
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Sandhi Yudha said:
At last...thats great news... Thank you for sharing Feanor!
So now its just a couple of months until the first one will be commissioned.

And what about the first of the Project 22350 Admiral Gorshkov-class frigates, also still under trials right?
Click to expand...
Yes, it's still in the Northern Fleet on state trials. They were supposed to finish last year, but were extended "due to the complexity of the guided weapons systems". I think the VMF may have demanded a more extensive set of trials then originally envisioned.
 
C

colay1

Member
If things are really this bad, they should just scrap her IMO. Nit worth the "prestige""
Of membership in the carrier club. China shoukd have learned a lot of lessons in what not to do and applied this to their indigenous design


Russia's Only Aircraft Carrier is a Floating Hell for the Crew | RealClearDefense

Russia's Only Aircraft Carrier is a Floating Hell for the Crew

Built in 1985, the Kuznetsov, a 55,000-ton behemoth, is a veteran of a full four deployments and the Russian Navy’s flagship. It’s powered by diesel fuel generators. Serving on the ship is akin to punishment for Russian sailors, who coined the phrase, “If you misbehave, you’ll be sent to the Kuznetsov.”

More at the link.
 
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
colay1 said:
If things are really this bad, they should just scrap her IMO. Nit worth the "prestige""
Of membership in the carrier club. China shoukd have learned a lot of lessons in what not to do and applied this to their indigenous design


Russia's Only Aircraft Carrier is a Floating Hell for the Crew | RealClearDefense

Russia's Only Aircraft Carrier is a Floating Hell for the Crew

Built in 1985, the Kuznetsov, a 55,000-ton behemoth, is a veteran of a full four deployments and the Russian Navy’s flagship. It’s powered by diesel fuel generators. Serving on the ship is akin to punishment for Russian sailors, who coined the phrase, “If you misbehave, you’ll be sent to the Kuznetsov.”

More at the link.
Click to expand...
It's bad allright, but it won't be scrapped anytime soon. Quite the opposite, it's getting new fighters and will likely see another deployment in 2016, possibly to Syria. There are also still upgrade plans for this ship, though they're a little vague. And a nuclear-powered replacement is planned by 2030.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Âîåííî-ìîðñêîé ôëîò ÐÔ ïîëó÷èò ñîâðåìåííûé àòîìíûé àâèàíîñåö òîëüêî ê 2030 ãîäó
Праздник тщеÑлавиÑ: выход "Кузнецова" на БС Ñ ÐœÐ¸Ð“Ð°Ð¼Ð¸ - оÑÐ½Ð¾Ð²Ð½Ð°Ñ Ð·Ð°Ð´Ð°Ñ‡Ð° МРВМФ 2016 года - Флот открытого океана: Ð¢Ñ€ÐµÑ‚ÑŒÑ Ð¿Ð¾Ð¿Ñ‹Ñ‚ÐºÐ°

Meanwhile work is continuing on the lead 20385 corvette and the second 22350, which is starting to near completion.

Свежие фото корвета проекта 20385 "ГремÑщий" - Добро пожаловать в журнал Ð*оÑтовÑкого Орла
По "КаÑатонову" - nortwolf_sam

Construction of a Russian LHD is planned to begin in 2018. Another 6 upgraded Kilos are planned for the Pacific Fleet. 4 of the 1155 destroyers are planned for upgrade, though the extent of the upgrade is unclear. 2 Arctic patrol ships are planned, which will combine the functions of an icebreaker and a patrol ship. The first regular patrol ship will also enter service by the end of 2016.

ÐовоÑти военного корабелоÑÑ‚Ñ€Ð¾ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ - Добро пожаловать в журнал Ð*оÑтовÑкого Орла

EDIT: There are a lot of Naval news coming out right now, so here's some more updates.

There are definite plans for 6 more kilos for the Pacific Fleet, as Lada hulls #3 and 4 are delayed until 2019. And a domestic anaerobic powerplant is expected no earlier then 2022. Effectively this means the Lada project is currently dead in the water. With the improved Kilos carrying the Kalibr-PL just like the Ladas, and without a anaerobic powerplant, there's no clear advantage, and the type is clearly having other issues as well. The first boat has been in experimental exploitation since 2010 with no end in sight.

http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/2591357
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1683370.html

The Admiral Kasatonov, 22350 second ship, is 81% completed. However they're oddly silent about ships 3 and 4. Maybe the engine troubles have been resolved, maybe they haven't been.

http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20160113/1359248139.html

Unsurprisingly after the Nakhimov upgrade is complete, Peter the Great is next in line for an upgrade. Hopefully the upgrade will be of the same kind, with Kalibr installation.

http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/2592389

Charly's blog offers an interesting comparison between the masts of the 20380 and 20385 ships. Without the German engines project 20385 seems to be limited to two ships, but the engines were not the only improvement the type offered. Currently a new 20386 project is in the works, but the information so far has it only carrying the Kh-35 missiles while the 20385 carries the Kalibr. I wouldn't be surprised if either the 20385 goes ahead anyways, with domestic turbines and consequently a slower speed, or the 20386 gets reworked to include the UKSK launch cells.

http://charly015.blogspot.com/2016/01/el-nuevo-mastil-de-las-corbetas-20385.html

At the end of 2016 the Kuznetsov is also due for an upgrade, and it will have a change in its airwing, with a mix of Su-33 and MiG-29K. I wonder if other changes are also planned, maybe inclusion of UAVs or newer helicopters (Ka-52K maybe?). The nature of the upgrade also remains unclear.

http://twower.livejournal.com/1883042.html

More photos of the Ivan Gren. With a new LHD planned the type is somewhat outdated, but given slippages and the complexity of starting production on a whole new type of ship, it would have been smart to proceed with the original plans for 6 of these classic BDKs.

http://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/1138808.html
 
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K

KiwiRob

Well-Known Member
Feanor said:
The Admiral Kasatonov, 22350 second ship, is 81% completed. However they're oddly silent about ships 3 and 4. Maybe the engine troubles have been resolved, maybe they haven't been.
Click to expand...
Still on hold, Severnaya still haven't resolved the main engine supply problem.
 
K

KiwiRob

Well-Known Member
Feanor said:
What happened to the Saturn plans? I thought they had a replacement lined up, and just needed to get production up and running.

EDIT: Contract for the Admiral Isakov engines was signed already, with delivery in 2018. Two M55R turbines.

Контракт на газотурбинные двигатели роÑÑийÑкого производÑтва Ð´Ð»Ñ Ñ„Ñ€ÐµÐ³Ð°Ñ‚Ð° «Ðдмирал ИÑаков» - bmpd
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No idea, in October when I was last at the yard they still had engine related delays.
 
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Well the 677 project Lada is finally dead. They will finish two more boats, and leave it at that. It's likely the run of 6 636.6s for the Pacific Fleet won't be the last. The freed up funding will go to the new project, Kalina, and to finishing the anaerobic engine. All 3 completed boats will go to the Baltic Fleet.

Лодок проекта 677 будет вÑего три. - Добро пожаловать в журнал РоÑтовÑкого Орла
О проекте 677 - Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½
LADA Калина? - Берлога Бронемедведа
 
Sandhi Yudha

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Well, its maybe indeed better to finish vessel #2 and 3 and end Project 677, a project with so much troubles from the beginning. With the budget moving to the Kalina project, they have definitely learned from 677 and will use the best of 677 and 636 in to the Kalina's.. (not yet a project numbers right?)
BTW, how about the Amur-Class, the export version of the Lada's?
 
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Sandhi Yudha said:
Well, its maybe indeed better to finish vessel #2 and 3 and end Project 677, a project with so much troubles from the beginning. With the budget moving to the Kalina project, they have definitely learned from 677 and will use the best of 677 and 636 in to the Kalina's.. (not yet a project numbers right?)
BTW, how about the Amur-Class, the export version of the Lada's?
Click to expand...
Without an anaerobic engine, the whole thing is pointless. Upgraded Kilos are in serial production, the yard can spit them out at a ridiculous pace, and they're still a decent sub for most customers. The attempts to find export customers for the 677s had more to do with using money from foreign sales to boost production of the type and less with real demand. Granted it does mean that Russian is definitely behind in non-nuclear subs. But there's really no way around it.

EDIT: Kiwirob maybe you can help me clear this up. The fourth 22350, Admiral Isakov, is contracted to have Russian turbines, with a very optimistic handover date of 2019. Russia received 3 sets of turbines from Ukraine, but they had to pull one to replace the one that burned on the Gorshkov. Wouldn't that mean the third ship also needed domestic turbines? Or are they somehow able to fix the damaged one?

http://charly015.blogspot.com/2016/01/la-4-fragata-del-proyecto-22350-la.html
 
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Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Some updates.

Ivan Gren preparing for factory sea trials. Meanwhile the Gorshkov has been testing it's missile armament with live-fire of Oniks missiles.

"Иван Грен" в доке - bmpd
"ОникÑ" - nortwolf_sam

In Samara the D090 gas-turbine for the Yaroslav Mudriy has completed repairs. This means the beginning of the end of reliance on Ukraine even for repair of Soviet-era designs whose documentation is still in Ukraine.

Ð’ Самаре отремонтирован газотурбинный двигатель Д090 Ñторожевого ÐºÐ¾Ñ€Ð°Ð±Ð»Ñ "ЯроÑлав Мудрый" - bmpd

The Admiral Essen has begun state trials, it's the second 11356 frigate. At this rate we might see it firing Kalibr-NK at targets in Syria before the end of this year.

Фрегат "Ðдмирал ЭÑÑен" начал гоÑударÑтвенные иÑÐ¿Ñ‹Ñ‚Ð°Ð½Ð¸Ñ - nortwolf_sam
 
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
In the light of current VMF operations, there seems to be a definite effort to upgrade existing Soviet ships to extend not only their service life but also their utility. One of the 1155 BPKs (Shaposhnikov) is getting X-35 AShMs to replace the inadequate Rastrub missiles. Also the 1155 BPKs are getting new radars for artillery fire control, and other upgrades.

Большой противолодочный корабль "Маршал Шапошников" получит ракетный ÐºÐ¾Ð¼Ð¿Ð»ÐµÐºÑ "Уран" - bmpd
"Ðдмирал Трибуц" готовитÑÑ ÑƒÐ´Ð¸Ð²Ð¸Ñ‚ÑŒ мир "Багирой". Дубль 2 - Флот открытого океана: Ñ‚Ñ€ÐµÑ‚ÑŒÑ Ð¿Ð¾Ð¿Ñ‹Ñ‚ÐºÐ°

And an interview with Aleksey Lyaschenko, of Novik, the Russian has-turbine maintenance company in Samara. They recently completed overhauls on the turbines for the Yaroslav Mudriy, and are now working on the Neustrashimiy and Admiral Chabanenko. They say they play to have Neustrashimiy complete by fall, and Chabanenko early next year. On the one hand, their rapid growth is impressive, on the other, this is still far too slow for VMF needs.

Ðовые подробноÑти оÑÐ²Ð¾ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ñ€ÐµÐ¼Ð¾Ð½Ñ‚Ð° в РоÑÑии корабельных газовых турбин - bmpd

The VMF also officially expects the Kuznetsov in the Mediterranean with a mixed Su-33 and MiG-29K airgroup. Combine that with news that the munitions storage facilities on it are being upgraded to hand new munitions, and I think we can expect to see some combat sorties by the MiG-29Ks.

http://panzerbar.livejournal.com/3264710.html
 
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H

Hashiva

New Member
looks like Russia is trying new things, Working on new developments and learning from past projects. In future, it looks they will be some strong side.
 
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
ngatimozart said:
Well they purged the senior command of the Baltic Fleet recently for "dereliction of duty". One could read various different scenarios into the reasoning of why.
Click to expand...
They publicly accused them of hiding the poor state of things in the Baltic fleet. Though, to be fair, the Baltic Fleet has been screwed for a long time. They've currently got one active frigate, 3 active corvettes, and a working old Kilo. That's it. Both of their destroyers are out of service ,one of the frigates (not too long ago both) is out (and one of them doesn't have any AShMs installed), and even one of the relatively new 20380s hasn't been seen active since an incident involving a fire. If Russia had engines, I'd say a trio of 11356s for the Baltic would have been in order, but as is, they're probably screwed. Their best chance is to try and re-animate one of the 956 destroyers, as well as pressuring Novik (the new Russian company that's taken over gas-turbine repairs for the VMF) to keep the 11540s running. It would also be nice if they finally put in X-35s on the first ship.
 
Sandhi Yudha

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
I actually never understand why the X-35 wasnt installed on the Neustrashimy from the beginning. After all it was for many years the most modern fregat of the Russian navy. The Yaroslav Mudry is armed with it, right?
 
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