Russian Air Force News & Discussion
- Thread starter Haavarla
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Twinblade
Member
dmitrydreamer: Су-34
Some great pictures of Su-34 in this link. That big grill on the tail boom, is it an exhaust for the APU ?
Some great pictures of Su-34 in this link. That big grill on the tail boom, is it an exhaust for the APU ?
The modern AVMF was weak to begin with. So yes, the maritime strike role would likely be filled by long-range aviation. Then again now that each command has unified the VVS, VMF, and SV so who knows what they would use.
Eureka! I think I know where the Su-35S will go. *drumroll* Krymsk. Airbase 6972.
After the latest round of shuffling, Airbase 6972 has become the class 1 airbase for the South MD. It has already taken deliveries of the Su-27SM3, which are good conversion and preparation for the Su-35S, and of the Su-30M2. Now it previously made no sense, since the Su-30M2 is supposed to be the trainer for all VVS upgraded Flankers, and each regiment in the Far East received only one Su-30M2, but the sole squadron of Su-27SM3s received a whole two of them. It would, however, make perfect sense, if they were meant as combat-trainers for future Su-35S. Even the numbers match up then, since 48 Su-35S are planned, they would need exactly two Su-30M2s for combat-trainer roles!
EDIT: This would also be consistent with MoD practice of sending all the newest and shiniest toys to the North-Caucus. Granted the Su-34s out of Voronezh seem to be an exception, but then again operating out of Voronezh, an Su-34 would be able to strike targets in the vicinity of Vladikavkaz, and return to Baltimore, without refueling (albeit at the limits of its combat radius). Given that the VVS has had quite a few in-flight refueling exercises with the Su-34, it's quite possible that they're counting on the tankers to extend their operating range. Finally, it should not be difficult to temporarily rebase some Su-34s further south if hostilities do break out.
After the latest round of shuffling, Airbase 6972 has become the class 1 airbase for the South MD. It has already taken deliveries of the Su-27SM3, which are good conversion and preparation for the Su-35S, and of the Su-30M2. Now it previously made no sense, since the Su-30M2 is supposed to be the trainer for all VVS upgraded Flankers, and each regiment in the Far East received only one Su-30M2, but the sole squadron of Su-27SM3s received a whole two of them. It would, however, make perfect sense, if they were meant as combat-trainers for future Su-35S. Even the numbers match up then, since 48 Su-35S are planned, they would need exactly two Su-30M2s for combat-trainer roles!
EDIT: This would also be consistent with MoD practice of sending all the newest and shiniest toys to the North-Caucus. Granted the Su-34s out of Voronezh seem to be an exception, but then again operating out of Voronezh, an Su-34 would be able to strike targets in the vicinity of Vladikavkaz, and return to Baltimore, without refueling (albeit at the limits of its combat radius). Given that the VVS has had quite a few in-flight refueling exercises with the Su-34, it's quite possible that they're counting on the tankers to extend their operating range. Finally, it should not be difficult to temporarily rebase some Su-34s further south if hostilities do break out.
Haavarla
Active Member
hey guys, after doing research I cant seem to find this:
i was wondering out of the SU-27, Mig-29/31
what are the most common used models?
like for example I know VVS operates a couple hundred of each, however are they all the original version or upgraded versions? And if upgraded, what is the most common one for each?
i was wondering out of the SU-27, Mig-29/31
what are the most common used models?
like for example I know VVS operates a couple hundred of each, however are they all the original version or upgraded versions? And if upgraded, what is the most common one for each?
Haavarla
Active Member
By now, i'd say most of em are upgraded version.
And it depends on what you mean by 'Original' version too.
There are not that many Su-27S or Su-27P in VVS service now..
I think there are more Mig-31 and Mig-31B version still operational, but these will get upgraded at a steady slow pace now..
And it depends on what you mean by 'Original' version too.
There are not that many Su-27S or Su-27P in VVS service now..
I think there are more Mig-31 and Mig-31B version still operational, but these will get upgraded at a steady slow pace now..
by original i mean still using tech it was built with on the assembly line
The Su-25UBM passed state trials, and we should see a contract for 16 of them signed soon.
Lenta.ru: Îðóæèå: Çàâåðøèëèñü ãîñèñïûòàíèÿ øòóðìîâèêà Ñó-25ÓÁÌ
The UBM is the combat trainer for the Su-25SM birds. They don't plan on resuming production of the Su-25 single -seaters, instead continuing upgrades for the SM standard. This really makes me wonder because the SM upgrade doesn't require new airframes. Why does the combat trainer for it require a new plane? It might be that the airframe resource on the UBs is so poor that they need new birds, as the combat trainers are notorious for getting many times more flight hours. But it might also be that the UBM is a more advanced version then the SM, and that some UBMs will in the long run replace some single-seaters in line service, as well as being trainers.
Also an Su-24 (probably Su-24MR) exploded when trying to land, near Volgograd. Both pilots ejected safely.
Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Íà àýðîäðîìå â Âîëãîãðàäñêîé îáëàñòè âçîðâàëñÿ áîìáàðäèðîâùèê
Lenta.ru: Îðóæèå: Çàâåðøèëèñü ãîñèñïûòàíèÿ øòóðìîâèêà Ñó-25ÓÁÌ
The UBM is the combat trainer for the Su-25SM birds. They don't plan on resuming production of the Su-25 single -seaters, instead continuing upgrades for the SM standard. This really makes me wonder because the SM upgrade doesn't require new airframes. Why does the combat trainer for it require a new plane? It might be that the airframe resource on the UBs is so poor that they need new birds, as the combat trainers are notorious for getting many times more flight hours. But it might also be that the UBM is a more advanced version then the SM, and that some UBMs will in the long run replace some single-seaters in line service, as well as being trainers.
Also an Su-24 (probably Su-24MR) exploded when trying to land, near Volgograd. Both pilots ejected safely.
Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Íà àýðîäðîìå â Âîëãîãðàäñêîé îáëàñòè âçîðâàëñÿ áîìáàðäèðîâùèê
There were 7 regiments before the reforms, plus at least 1 regiment in the AVMF (Baltic Fleet). I don't know how many there are now, but there were also a regiment worth of them in the piloting demo group, a number of regular Su-27S and/or P should be at Lipetsk, GLITs, etc. Plus a number of UBs should be scattered around the units. So a total of maybe ~250 were in active service before the reforms. There might've been more in the AVMF, I'm not sure.
one last thing, is this wrong??
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mig_31"]Mikoyan MiG-31 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
according to that, the cost of a Mig-31 is 60 million....is that really correct?
60 million is the estimated cost of Pak-FA....and SU-35...
if its right, how in the world does that plane cost so much?
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mig_31"]Mikoyan MiG-31 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
according to that, the cost of a Mig-31 is 60 million....is that really correct?
60 million is the estimated cost of Pak-FA....and SU-35...
if its right, how in the world does that plane cost so much?
Haavarla
Active Member
Yes but as of now, the regiments are all gone. It is impossible to figure out how the total numbers of operating Flankers.. all we know is the number of Su-27SM and SM3.
There exist only Sq level, and there are not that many airbases left in the VVS.
The Structure in VVS have been cut in half(or more!) in a 3-4 year period by now..
Now I'm sure there exist several Su-27S/P, but how much flying hour do they get and how many have been put on storage by now, thats the real question.
There is at least one regiment of Su-27S still operational with the Baltic Fleet AVMF. There is at least one squadron of Su-27S with the Khotilovo airbase. There were two squadrons of Su-27S/P at the Krymsk airbase before the SM3s got there. It's unclear whether they were retired, relocated, or left there. In December 2010 there were 1-4 squadrons of Su-27 part of West MD, in the 7000th Airbase, however where their physical location is, is pure speculation. And Khotilovo is now part of the 7000th AirBase, so it's unclear if the other Flankers in West MD were retired or not. There is also Su-27s at the airgroup deployed to Kant, Airbase 999. However there should be ~4 there.
Nobody knows how much the PAK-FA would cost. Some Super Flanker variants do run closer to 60 million, so it wouldn't be inconceivable to sell a MiG-31BM for that money. That having been said, it's very unlikely there are any real current prices for the aircraft, given how it's not getting exported, or produced at this time. So I'd disregard those numbers.
Speaking of MiG-31BM, the GPV-2020 apparently has 60 more MiG-31s getting upgraded. Anywhere between 24-48 should be already BMs, so this means that large quantities of MiG-31s will remain in service past 2020.
http://lenta.ru/news/2011/12/30/mig31/
Also the first An-140-100 has been delivered, out of a contract for 9 of those aircraft. The production is done at Aviakor factory, in iirc Samara. It's a replacement for the An-24, and An-26 medium transports. Given the rather poor state of Aviakor, they are unlikely to be able to truly mass-produce the aircraft, but they should be able to deliver 3-5 aircraft annually. (they themselves claim to have production facilities for 6 annually) The other problem is that they also have orders from Yakutia airlines for the plane, and they do repair and upgrades on Tu-154 airplanes, as well as low-rate production. So realistically, without major investment into the plant, the MoD would be lucky to get 3-4 aircraft a year.
http://www.arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=102289&cid=25
http://www.arms-expo.ru/049057054048124050054051050055.html
Nobody knows how much the PAK-FA would cost. Some Super Flanker variants do run closer to 60 million, so it wouldn't be inconceivable to sell a MiG-31BM for that money. That having been said, it's very unlikely there are any real current prices for the aircraft, given how it's not getting exported, or produced at this time. So I'd disregard those numbers.
Speaking of MiG-31BM, the GPV-2020 apparently has 60 more MiG-31s getting upgraded. Anywhere between 24-48 should be already BMs, so this means that large quantities of MiG-31s will remain in service past 2020.
http://lenta.ru/news/2011/12/30/mig31/
Also the first An-140-100 has been delivered, out of a contract for 9 of those aircraft. The production is done at Aviakor factory, in iirc Samara. It's a replacement for the An-24, and An-26 medium transports. Given the rather poor state of Aviakor, they are unlikely to be able to truly mass-produce the aircraft, but they should be able to deliver 3-5 aircraft annually. (they themselves claim to have production facilities for 6 annually) The other problem is that they also have orders from Yakutia airlines for the plane, and they do repair and upgrades on Tu-154 airplanes, as well as low-rate production. So realistically, without major investment into the plant, the MoD would be lucky to get 3-4 aircraft a year.
http://www.arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=102289&cid=25
http://www.arms-expo.ru/049057054048124050054051050055.html
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Wooww... indeed very impressive and unique pics! I've never see before such detailed pics of the Su-34.
BTW, whats this?
What does "SANBA....OK" means?
BTW, are all new Su-34 painted black? And if so, why?
That is the toilet container on the Su-34.......
Also the new paintscheme is supposed to blend in with the runway. There were rumors of RAM used in the new paint, but they are just that at this point - rumors.
EDIT: The West MD just took delivery of it's first Mi-28N. However, as I understand it neither Buddenovsk, nor Korenovsk have been fully re-armed, meaning there are now 3 airbases with various quantities of Mi-28N.
http://lenta.ru/news/2012/01/02/helicopter/
On a side note, Buddenovsk recently took deliveries of the first 4 Mi-35M, of the 22 ordered for the VVS. All in all the situation looks messy.
Also the new paintscheme is supposed to blend in with the runway. There were rumors of RAM used in the new paint, but they are just that at this point - rumors.
EDIT: The West MD just took delivery of it's first Mi-28N. However, as I understand it neither Buddenovsk, nor Korenovsk have been fully re-armed, meaning there are now 3 airbases with various quantities of Mi-28N.
http://lenta.ru/news/2012/01/02/helicopter/
On a side note, Buddenovsk recently took deliveries of the first 4 Mi-35M, of the 22 ordered for the VVS. All in all the situation looks messy.
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Klaus
New Member
The new "Air International" claims that, according to Russian Air Force officials, the first Su 30 SM will already be delivered at the end of this year. After a succesful service entry the VVS may consider placing a second order as 28 might not be enough to supplement the Su 35.
Among the upgraded aircraft the VVS is going to receive this year will also be several Su 24 M and 12 Su 25 SM. The latter will all be deployed to the Russian Far East.
Among the upgraded aircraft the VVS is going to receive this year will also be several Su 24 M and 12 Su 25 SM. The latter will all be deployed to the Russian Far East.
Yes the first iirc two Su-30SM could be handed over this year. The contract currently signed is supposedly for an order of 28 with an option for 12 more.
Personally I think it's a bad idea to have a future fleet consist of Su-27SM, Su-27SM3, Su-30M2, Su-30SM, and Su-35S, all filling the same slot in the force org. I think they should have chosen a single advanced Flanker variant, and upgraded all the Flankers to that level. If the AVMF is dead-set on having a two-seater replacement for their Su-24Ms, and for some reason won't take the Su-34, let them get the Su-30SMs.
Personally I think it's a bad idea to have a future fleet consist of Su-27SM, Su-27SM3, Su-30M2, Su-30SM, and Su-35S, all filling the same slot in the force org. I think they should have chosen a single advanced Flanker variant, and upgraded all the Flankers to that level. If the AVMF is dead-set on having a two-seater replacement for their Su-24Ms, and for some reason won't take the Su-34, let them get the Su-30SMs.
Haavarla
Active Member
I was in a similar debate over at key forum, only it was that VVS shouldn't procure the Su-34, but instead go for Su-30SM in larger scale.
The point was that there are too many different Flankers variant and Fullback. in the VVS.
Well, i beg the different. There shouldn't be any problem to service and get a developed good logistic out of any mixed Flankers and Su-34 in the whole VVS.
Why would the different Flankers and Su-34 be so hard to service? They have much much more in common compaired any other large AF around the world.. look at IAF
While there are some different systems, like radar and other EW, the Engines are practical all the same, same with the airframes parts..
The point was that there are too many different Flankers variant and Fullback. in the VVS.
Well, i beg the different. There shouldn't be any problem to service and get a developed good logistic out of any mixed Flankers and Su-34 in the whole VVS.
Why would the different Flankers and Su-34 be so hard to service? They have much much more in common compaired any other large AF around the world.. look at IAF
While there are some different systems, like radar and other EW, the Engines are practical all the same, same with the airframes parts..
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The Su-34 is a strike variant developed to VVS requirements. The SM is the MKI, i.e. a heavy multi-role developed to Indian AF requirements. What is your logic in arguing for the SM over the Su-34? Also the SM overlaps much more heavily with the Su-35S then with the Su-34...
EDIT: I guess my immediate problem is with the decision to shit-can the SM2 variant, which was supposed to be Su-35S retrofit for legacy Flankers. Instead they roll out the SM3 for new builds, and leave the old fleet at SM standard.
EDIT: I guess my immediate problem is with the decision to shit-can the SM2 variant, which was supposed to be Su-35S retrofit for legacy Flankers. Instead they roll out the SM3 for new builds, and leave the old fleet at SM standard.