Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

Novascotiaboy

Active Member
As a typical Northerner I have never viewed the world map from that perspective with NZ top centre. Interesting to say the least.

Looking at the inshore patrol needs would the CB90 be a viable option for naval reserve units around the country? Fast, all weather with an ability to mount weapons if required they could be used for a multitude of tasks and provide reserve personnel Sea time. Given their size they could be license built in country.
 

Xthenaki

Active Member
hich means a very long fetch and big seas / swells. The eastern coasts of NZ are sheltered from this by the land mass of NZ whilst Cook Strait has the predom

I am quite happy for the RNZN to continue undertaking constabulary patrolling of NZ waters because of the value those roles have for the RNZN in training and experience for crews. However NZDF should be fully funded / refunded by the appropriate govt departments; Customs, MPI, DOC, etc., for the RNZN participation.
If the Navy were to throw the IPV plans to a Naval Architect to see if they could raise the fo'c'sle and create a larger bow flare an opportunity could be made to see if that option was feasible both with cost and improved sea handling ability. If trialed a one off would be a start.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The simple answer to what you want is that the government won't stump up the money and always goes for one size fits all approach. The other problem is simply as Ngati pointed out is the sea states of the west coast is vastly different than the east coast and if you want to be at sea in winter on the west coast in winter a significant amount of the time you need size and that is why 55m was chosen for the ipv's as it was found that the earlier 33m ipc's could not operate on the west coast in winter unless there was shelter nearby. smaller boats sound good but the would need to be locally based and in significant numbers to be effective. In other words you would need to set up a number of patrol bases around the country so that the boats are never to far from selter during winter. However local commercial fishing can now be monitored more cheaply electronically so the need is less for a physical presence
IPC's were / are 27 m Rob. I say are because they are still being used in civilian capacities; some as gin palaces.
Yes that huge Great Barrier Sand Bar between Godszone and Asia.
Cpl PM Muldoon's quip regarding Kiwis migrating to Australia comes to mind as well: "The IQ of both countries will go up then won't it." :D
It shows how much New Zealand is protected by Australia...:)
Manawanui does look like a comfortable ship for her purpose. Provided the hull is sound, and the pre purchase survey should have shown that, she should give many years of good dervice. Look forward to seeing her “in the flesh” at some point, hopefully not too far into the future.
Yes she does look very impressive and I think that they have done a good job with her. They had an independent assessor go over her as well.
 

ASSAIL

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
If the Navy were to throw the IPV plans to a Naval Architect to see if they could raise the fo'c'sle and create a larger bow flare an opportunity could be made to see if that option was feasible both with cost and improved sea handling ability. If trialed a one off would be a start.
Don’t forget a 10 mtr x 5 mtr rudder!
 

Xthenaki

Active Member
Don’t forget a 10 mtr x 5 mtr rudder!
The present draught is 2.9m. Able to Petrol in Sea state 5 (4metres) Survival is (up to seastate 8).
If seastate 6 or just over to 5.5/6metre wave max were possible, operating parameters would change - looking at East coast NZ (Inc, Chatham Is.)/West coast N Is to Pacific Islands
 

Gibbo

Well-Known Member
A great capability has been acquired, good luck and smooth sailing for the RNZN.
I liked the video tour but the lens they used drove me nuts!
Yes Manawanui will prove a good buy, I have no doubt. One thing I do wonder though - is the recompression chamber big enough? It'll treat 2 divers... the bell can take 3 so arguably you could be in a situation at least 3 need attention.
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
Yes Manawanui will prove a good buy, I have no doubt. One thing I do wonder though - is the recompression chamber big enough? It'll treat 2 divers... the bell can take 3 so arguably you could be in a situation at least 3 need attention.
IIRC it is as dive pairs or buddies as SOP. The additional space in the bell is likely there for equipment / emergency.
 

Exkiwiforces

New Member
Yes Manawanui will prove a good buy, I have no doubt. One thing I do wonder though - is the recompression chamber big enough? It'll treat 2 divers... the bell can take 3 so arguably you could be in a situation at least 3 need attention.
There was a doco about a Deep Sea Dive that went wrong in the Nth Sea on Netflix and the during the dive it 3 in the dive bell with divers and a dive supervisor (not sure if that’s correct terminology) who double check the equipment, unbundle the umbilical cords and maintain coms to the Dive Shift Supervisor Top side. I would be a little concerned if the decompression chamber or whatever it’s called only fits two as I believe standard industry practice is: two divers, one dive supervisor and a medic per decompression chamber.
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
Surgeon Commodore Tony Slark RNZN pretty much wrote the text book when it came to Hyperbaric medicine. I am pretty sure that HMNZS Matataua wont be taking short cuts here.
 

Gibbo

Well-Known Member
There was a doco about a Deep Sea Dive that went wrong in the Nth Sea on Netflix and the during the dive it 3 in the dive bell with divers and a dive supervisor (not sure if that’s correct terminology) who double check the equipment, unbundle the umbilical cords and maintain coms to the Dive Shift Supervisor Top side. I would be a little concerned if the decompression chamber or whatever it’s called only fits two as I believe standard industry practice is: two divers, one dive supervisor and a medic per decompression chamber.
Sorry it does mention 2 divers & a medic on the video... I just wondered if 2 divers was enough. Clearly I'm a numby when it comes to recompression chambers... I wonder if those are beds or fold down seats in the inner chamber!?! Do divers normally sit or lie down during treatment? There's 2 fold-down seats in the outer chamber - where does the medic sit? I notice the inward opening door of the inner chamber will not open if the fold-down seat behind it is not lifted, wonder if that's likely to be an issue if occupants pass out & need to be accessed!?!
 

RegR

Well-Known Member
It is my understanding that NZ has, more or less, two distinct types of 'zones' that require patrolling for constabulary purposes, like EEZ/resource enforcement, fisheries and pollution control, etc. Broadly, these two zones are inshore and offshore areas with the inshore area being generally within the 12 n mile limit for territorial waters, and the offshore area covering basically all the EEZ claims of NZ as well as those of various S. Pacific islands that NZ has agreements to provide EEZ patrols.

Now as Mr.C pointed out in post #6959, it does seem as though most of the needed inshore patrolling is actually within 3 n miles and for recreational smallcraft vs. large/commercial vessels like when the maritime review was conducted nearly 20 years ago... Now I could be mistaken, but I would strongly suspect that using a 55 m IPV is a bit overkill if the vessels of concern are smallcraft, and then smaller, faster vessels which can operate more effectively close in to coastlines and require smaller crews would be more effective.

As for offshore operations, I am aware that the Moa-class at times did operate offshore as opposed to inshore, and I would expect the newer, larger and more advanced IPV''s would have superior capabilities over the IPC's in that regards. Having said that though, the ability of the IPV's to operate in some areas of the 200 n mile EEZ limit in some conditions is not the same as the capabilities of the OPV's to operate throughout the areas of EEZ claims. As an example, I would suspect that an IPV would be hard pressed to safely transit to the Chatham Islands and then sustain patrols 200 n miles to the SE.



You are of course free to think so. At present though, it does seem as the the patrolling needs of the NZG centre largely on either closer to shore than the IPV's were really intended for, or further away from land, and especially ports suitable to operate the IPV's from. In short, the IPV's seem too large for the one role, and yet too small for the other. If that is the actual case, then I would much prefer that the NZG get the proper kit for the needed roles. I am not too fussed about whether or not the kit is operated by the RNZN, RNZNR, or some other agency or group of agencies.

Side note, given the Capital Charge which IIRC still appears on the Vote Defence budget each year, I would be delighted if several NZD$35 mil. assets were to be replaced with more effective/efficient assets. Why pay the operational costs for a 55 m vessel to do RHIB/motor launch-type work, assuming that is accurate.
TBH the IPVs and OPVs are merely transports for boardings as it is the 2 x RHIBs that do the actual boarding, hence their ease of launch/recovery and almost identical drills and set up. The ships just extend transits into any given area (be it inshore or off) and provide a homebase to work from, live off for a week whilst transiting along the coastline and provide intercept, over watch and recovery options. As for size I have seen an IPV so close to shore you could clearly see the guys on the deck so obviously like any ship they know how far in (or out) they can go within their limits, point being they are obviously not adverse to bringing them "inshore" when/if needed for whatever reasons.
 

RegR

Well-Known Member
It shows how much New Zealand is protected by Australia...:)

Manawanui does look like a comfortable ship for her purpose. Provided the hull is sound, and the pre purchase survey should have shown that, she should give many years of good dervice. Look forward to seeing her “in the flesh” at some point, hopefully not too far into the future.
Agreed, it looks to be a great step up in comfort features, functionality and sea keeping compared to old and that did a great job so it can only get better. I think this may now be a sought after posting in comparison. By all accounts the ship was assessed to be in fine condition and even deemed on par with a much younger ship in terms of overall condition.

I actually quite like this ship and she is quite a larger beast going off the pics of her parked next to one of the OPVs. Long may she serve.
 

Rob c

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
IPC's were / are 27 m Rob. I say are because they are still being used in civilian capacities; some as gin palaces.
I should have made it clear that I was referring to the prior Lake class IPC which were 32.9m length and 6.1 beam with 25 knots speed, ( in very calm water ) in service from about 1974 to 1991. While the moa class came into service at the end of my service I was far more aware of the lake class and their crews and did a small amount of time at sea on them.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I should have made it clear that I was referring to the prior Lake class IPC which were 32.9m length and 6.1 beam with 25 knots speed, ( in very calm water ) in service from about 1974 to 1991. While the moa class came into service at the end of my service I was far more aware of the lake class and their crews and did a small amount of time at sea on them.
Ah, the Lake class well known as bone breakers. I was based at Shelly Bay when they used to come alongside and scored more than one tot :D
 

40 deg south

Well-Known Member

360 deg tour of the Manawanui, looks really nice esp the bridge... lots of wood to polish :D
Apologies if this has already been noted, but there was plenty of speculation when the Edda Fonn was first purchased as to whether the flight deck could take a NH90.
In the final minute of the video, the Captain clearly states that it can.
 

Rob c

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Ah, the Lake class well known as bone breakers. I was based at Shelly Bay when they used to come alongside and scored more than one tot :D
The PO's made that compulsory when they came along side when I was there at the senior nco's mess, even their officers used to drink in the senior nco's as they did not think much of our offices ( mainly admino's )Great nights, hard mornings.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The PO's made that compulsory when they came along side when I was there at the senior nco's mess, even their officers used to drink in the senior nco's as they did not think much of our offices ( mainly admino's )Great nights, hard mornings.
Yep. Dead right nights & mornings. Crawl from the Cpls club to home, get told off for being late - did say I'd be home at 1/2 past and if home at 25 past was early and 25 to was late :D. 4 cups of coffee before look at work starts & match sticks to keep eyes open. Lived over in Kilbirnie at the time, so could make for interesting drive home around the Bay road.
 

Catalina

Member
17th August 1959 has been described as the last time the RNZAF dropped a live bomb in conflict, during the Malayan Emergency.

Out of curiosity, when was the last time the RNZN fired at a target during a conflict?
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
17th August 1959 has been described as the last time the RNZAF dropped a live bomb in conflict, during the Malayan Emergency.

Out of curiosity, when was the last time the RNZN fired at a target during a conflict?
14 Squadron Canberra's were deployed to Borneo between 1964-1966 with the role of providing strategic protection and overwatch on 1RNZIR. However they did not have to directly engage - which is an example of the great role that deterence plays with respect to armed confrontation.
 

Catalina

Member
Good morning Mr Conservative,

Thank you for the information about 14 Squadron. You are right regarding the importance of deterence, and the benefits that an overwatch capibility provides troops on the ground.

Wonder also if anyone can confirm the last time our Navy fired at a target during a conflict.

Thanks for any information.

Yours Faithfully
Catalina
 
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