Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter Padman
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One has been built and another is in built, one for the UK and the other for Peru, the UK vessel was built in Spain. It's a polar research vessel, I doubt we would need to do much to it if we wanted a polar research vessel. Except this is not a cheap design, the UK vessel RRS Discovery cost approx £75m.
The govt could buy one of Erik Watson's new superyachts, he's building two, one is currently fitting out in Germany, the second was launched in March. The design is a MarineTeknikk MT 5006 MKII ESV. These are tough vessels, more capable than anything in the Navy's inventory at the moment.
The cost of rebasing the Navy would be minor compared to relocating Ports of Auckland. If you went up to Marsden Point which is the logical destination the infrastructure that would need to be built to accommodate vessels and transport containers South would be significant. Double track rail would be the only sensible solution.
If the Port moves and the Navy moves at the same time, both would be significant employers, you're going to need more of everything to accommodate them, schools, shops, medical..........Plus it's not just the Navy and Port workers tha would relocate, it would be all the civilian maintenance people as well.
Doing this would be one of the largest infrastructure projects in NZ history, I actually think it's a no brainer. Win win for everyone especially the local community.
Do you mean Graeme Hart's getting another new Marine Teknikk vessel?One has been built and another is in built, one for the UK and the other for Peru, the UK vessel was built in Spain. It's a polar research vessel, I doubt we would need to do much to it if we wanted a polar research vessel. Except this is not a cheap design, the UK vessel RRS Discovery cost approx £75m.
The govt could buy one of Erik Watson's new superyachts, he's building two, one is currently fitting out in Germany, the second was launched in March. The design is a MarineTeknikk MT 5006 MKII ESV. These are tough vessels, more capable than anything in the Navy's inventory at the moment.
The UK would have paid a premium for the RSS Discovery due to the specialist scientific equipment. However GBP75m for a full turnkey proven vessel with the various MCM/Dive/ERP/Survey equipment would be a good deal for the RNZN if they are looking at that particular hull as their starting point for their LWSV vessel.
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
CD makes a good point - projects that can benefit all three services have a better chance of being approved. From the outside it already looks (as per ZA) as if Defence is managing its relationship with Treasury far better than in the past.
Looking at the defence acquisitions under the current government, they seem to have had a pretty good success rate. The pilot training system was on time and budget, the MAN trucks basically gave us the same model as Australia but cheaper and faster, even the Seasprite seems to be meeting expectations. In each case, defence has been able to demonstrate that the purchase represents good value for NZ over the life of the system.
My main concern is around timing and slippage - it seems to have become routine for projects to be repeatedly delayed. Take the Endeavour replacement - originally it was going to be contracted in mid-2015. Then it slipped to early 2016. We now know negotiations are underway with Hyundai, but the contract isn't likely to be signed until mid-2016. Presumably this will push back the selection and contract for the Littoral Operations vessel, which will in turn affect the rumored third OPV...
I have a sense that equipment is wearing out faster than it is being replaced, particularly with the two big Air Force replacement projects looming.
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
KiwirobOne has been built and another is in built, one for the UK and the other for Peru, the UK vessel was built in Spain. It's a polar research vessel, I doubt we would need to do much to it if we wanted a polar research vessel. Except this is not a cheap design, the UK vessel RRS Discovery cost approx £75m.
The govt could buy one of Erik Watson's new superyachts, he's building two, one is currently fitting out in Germany, the second was launched in March. The design is a MarineTeknikk MT 5006 MKII ESV. These are tough vessels, more capable than anything in the Navy's inventory at the moment.
Thanks for update. Any info on where the Peruvian one is being built?
While this design would cover off many of the requirements for NZ's LOSC vessel, from memory this was about the only proposed RNZN purchase in recent years that didn't want a costed option for ice strengthening.
The other option would be Tauranga. Kiwi Rail already run a shipping service from Auckland to there. It's the Port of Tauranga Auckland hub. You probably would have to double track from Hamilton or wherever the Tauranga line branches off from. In my opinion though, Whangarei - Marsden Point area would be better. The port facilities would be out in a rural area miles away from any urban area and plenty of room for expansion. Like you say a win win.
Whoops yes Graham Hart, he has two Kleven built vessels designed by Marine Teknikk, the second one is 116m, launched in March, it will be on its way to Germany for fit out soon. Qwest have built impressive looking tenders for both vessels, I was told the hull design is based on the two police boats they build a few years back.
I think NZ should have a real polar vessel, something like RRS Discovery or better yet RRS Boaty McBoatface (I hope that name wins).
The problem with Tauranga is it doesn't have much more room to expand, it couldn't take on all the ships currently visiting Auckland as well as the ships it already services, Marsden Point is the only logical location for Ports of Auckland to relocate to. ,l
Zero Alpha
New Member
While late, the DMRR probably validated the funding modelling and gave Cabinet confidence that the programme was affordable. Better to get the sequencing right and get closer to the ideal that stick to the original schedule and risk getting something that is barely suitable.
What's your source on Hyundai?
Some further tid-bits on a 3rd OPV:
https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/imps-news/southern-ocean-focus-planned-rnzn-opv/
and the conference agenda:
Conference Agenda | Offshore Patrol Surveillance
An in-service date of 2020 seems unlikely at the current rate of progress (not even an RFI issued yet), based on the LOSC & MSC project experience.
Somewhat OT: An interesting foreign relations dilemma - Norfolk Island is currently pushing (via the UN) for full independence from or at-least free association with Australia. What should NZ's policy be on this? To be consistent (ie. East Timor) we would have to support self-determination, no? Maybe offer them free association with NZ, joining the Cooks & Niue*. Norfolk is actually closer to Auckland than Sydney, and Air NZ already provides the air service:devil
Norfolk mutiny: Islanders ask UN to help them regain independence from Australian Government - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
* Tokelau remains a non-self governing territory. Two referenda on self-goverance failed narrowly in the mid 2000's.
For ZA: A Janes article declared that Hyundai were the preferred tenderer for the MSC project.
HHI in frame for New Zealand tanker programme | IHS Jane's 360
https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/imps-news/southern-ocean-focus-planned-rnzn-opv/
and the conference agenda:
Conference Agenda | Offshore Patrol Surveillance
An in-service date of 2020 seems unlikely at the current rate of progress (not even an RFI issued yet), based on the LOSC & MSC project experience.
Somewhat OT: An interesting foreign relations dilemma - Norfolk Island is currently pushing (via the UN) for full independence from or at-least free association with Australia. What should NZ's policy be on this? To be consistent (ie. East Timor) we would have to support self-determination, no? Maybe offer them free association with NZ, joining the Cooks & Niue*. Norfolk is actually closer to Auckland than Sydney, and Air NZ already provides the air service:devil
Norfolk mutiny: Islanders ask UN to help them regain independence from Australian Government - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
* Tokelau remains a non-self governing territory. Two referenda on self-goverance failed narrowly in the mid 2000's.
For ZA: A Janes article declared that Hyundai were the preferred tenderer for the MSC project.
HHI in frame for New Zealand tanker programme | IHS Jane's 360
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You're welcome to Norfolk Is. The reason the Feds want to take over is that they want to improve the standard of services there and bring them into line with the rest of the country. They pay no tax and therefore the infra structure on the island is terrible, they still unload ships by long boat, the health system is basic, there is no aged pension etc etc.
they receive a huge amount of taxpayer subsidy per capita just to retain their current lifestyle.
The people are happy to stay that way but no sovereign government with responsibilities for the welfare of its people can tolerate the current position despite how the islanders feel.
Just what you guys need
go for it.40 deg south
Well-Known Member
Janes says HHI is preferred bidder (last month). A surprise to me, as I thought we would get an Aegir-class from DSME, as per Britain and Norway. I'm not aware Hyundai have ever revealed what design they put forward.
HHI in frame for New Zealand tanker programme | IHS Jane's 360
I can live with individual projects running late, particularly of it means a better decision is made. I'm more concerned that time-frames generally seem to be sliding to the right. I really hoped that re-equipping the navy (tanker, LOSC, frigate mid-life upgrades, new OPV) could be sorted by 2020, leaving the 2020s as a decade to rebuild the air force. That possibility is slipping away....
Oops, just noticed Chis73 has already responded.
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40 deg south
Well-Known Member
Thanks Chis, that is very very interesting. The 3rd OPV has clearly moved beyond the realms of wishful thinking, and is now a fairly well-advanced project. The topic of the RNZN officer's address was
Now, who will be first to post a link for an off-the-shelf ice-capable OPV?
Addendum. If NZ gains a specialist vessel for Down South, would it be possible to remove some of the ice protection from the existing OPVs, improving their handling and giving some capacity for payload growth? Apologies to all nautical types if this is ridiculous question.
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one of my mates has been an administrator on one of Australias Territories (similar to Norfolk)You're welcome to Norfolk Is. The reason the Feds want to take over is that they want to improve the standard of services there and bring them into line with the rest of the country. They pay no tax and therefore the infra structure on the island is terrible, they still unload ships by long boat, the health system is basic, there is no aged pension etc etc.
they receive a huge amount of taxpayer subsidy per capita just to retain their current lifestyle.
The people are happy to stay that way but no sovereign government with responsibilities for the welfare of its people can tolerate the current position despite how the islanders feel.
Just what you guys need
they have this 18th Cent tahitian mindset that they can sustain their own economy without anything of substance - good luck surviving on tourism dollars. good luck on getting australian tourists when they bag australia when it suits them
personally if they want to go, then go. cut them off now and let them discover the real world and don't come back for any more support.
Although my mate loved the lifestyle he despaired at how unrealistic the more jingoistic members of the community were.
marooned geographically and marooned intellectually
if they think that transporting gear via lighters and bum-boats is quaint and still works, then good on them
save all the money for the other territories
t68
Well-Known Member
Every two to three years the Ed Dept advertises for a temp teachers position on the island. Subsides, housing and all. She was all for it to until she found out I was going too and buy a couple of extra fishing rods. She didn't like that idea in the end!
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kiwipatriot69
Active Member
Naming of ships
I read the article on that ship, while it won the popular vote online, Royal Navy wouldn't adopt it. It was mentioned it cost $400 million to build which would put it out of our price range. Speaking of ships names, has there ever been a HMNZS Auckland? Seeing how they name ships after major regions, or cities.
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Not a HMNZS Auckland per se but there was until 2000 HMNZS Tamaki which is a Maori word for the Auckland area. Tamaki was used as an onshore establishment or 'stone' frigate.
The 99m Skipsteknisk’s ST-344 design RSS Discovery cost between GBP68-75m when delivered to the NERC in 2013. It is probably a more suitable ship for us in a Southern Ocean role than the larger RSS 'Boaty McBoatface' and cost does play a part in the different specialist bespoke scientific outfitting differences. The slightly smaller vessel 95m being built for the Peruvians as an OSV using the the Skipsteknisk’s ST-344 design for their own Southern Ocean/Antarctic interests is a good model for us to work from in my view. Our old SH-2G's will likely fly from the new Peruvian version as it has a hanger and flight deck.
The Royal Navy don't operate the ship, she will be owned and operated by the British Arctic Survey.
You're welcome to Norfolk Is. The reason the Feds want to take over is that they want to improve the standard of services there and bring them into line with the rest of the country. They pay no tax and therefore the infra structure on the island is terrible, they still unload ships by long boat, the health system is basic, there is no aged pension etc etc.
they receive a huge amount of taxpayer subsidy per capita just to retain their current lifestyle.
The people are happy to stay that way but no sovereign government with responsibilities for the welfare of its people can tolerate the current position despite how the islanders feel.
Just what you guys need
Nice little story of a plane in WW11 low on fuel about to ditch when finally it picked up the radar from Norfolk island and finally made a safe landing. Pilot jumps out and kisses the tarmac as you would..... If you stand on the highest point of this beautiful Isalnd you appreciate fully how remote this place is and how lucky the pilot and crew were to have surrvived. It's also a reminder that this is a good strategic piece of rock for the C of A. The run way needs a stretch and yes they certainly need a pier. Not just for local logistics, but also for their all important tourist dollar.Get a pier and you could also tie up a visiting OPV. Yes the locals have thir own peculiar ways and thats part of the charm of the place. But self government, well we had to use the local hospital and yes I've hit all the pot holes on the Island road system.What can I say!
Lack of self government may prove to be a win win for Local Islanders ( they don't know it yet ) and the nation. It will take time to transition but they may realise you can have your cake and eat it too.
Just won't be able to buy lego sets so cheaply...... A small sacrifice
The Island has alot of potential and It must be remembered its greatest population size was during WW11.
The Island has alot to offer in many ways. Including defence
Regards S