stryker NZ
New Member
too bad the MRV aint ready that would come in handy if a coup really does happen and you do have a point we should sent something up there its not right to rely on the Australians all the time
Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter Padman
- Start date
too bad the MRV aint ready that would come in handy if a coup really does happen and you do have a point we should sent something up there its not right to rely on the Australians all the time
Yes, the Labour government should have had the MRV in service a year ago when their last Leander was decommissioned. But that is hindsight, as they say in America Monday morning quarterbacking. And yes, the MRV would be very useful at Fiji currently in a joint naval show of force. Unfortunately, Fiji's political problems won't fade away and the MRV will likely be used in another crisis soon. Last month Tonga had political unrest, in the past year East Timor has seen unrest, and within the past five years the Solomon Islands has seen unrest.
Currently, one of the Anzacs frigates and the Resolution replenishment oiler is in SE Asia showing the flag and exercising near Singapore. The other Anzac frigate is in Auckland. Since the frigate has not been deployed, I suspect the NZ government will evacuate their citizens via aircraft, whether civilian or military. One aircraft can carry much more people than one frigate or OPV. The situation is different in Fiji compared to Tonga. Fiji is facing a military coup, whereas in Tonga, East Timor, and the Solomons, there were a dangerous mob running amok.
By the end of next year, New Zealand will have all of their Project Protector OPVs and IPVs in operational service. The MRV and OPVs will be the assets used to respond to an event in the South Pacific, especially the MRV. Unfortuanetly none of the Project Protector ships are available now.
As I noted in the first sentence of this post, the Labour government should have moved faster to acquire and build these ships. And I will add the National government should have funded either another frigate or the conversion of Charles Upham. Therefore, I placed blame on both parties. Its becoming very obvious that neither government expected so many problems in the South Pacific despite the warning signs of the first Fiji coup.
While the navy will be receiving new ships useful for sudden operations, I wonder whether their army is up to the task. NZ should have a sizable rapid reaction force, but as I see it they don't. Even with the MRV it will take a day or more to embark the LAVs and Pingauzers aboard the ship, with at least another day before arriving at Fiji.
Without an oiler, I doubt whether NZ could sustain a long naval presence at Fiji. Therefore, it appears NZ is banking on aircraft.
Currently, one of the Anzacs frigates and the Resolution replenishment oiler is in SE Asia showing the flag and exercising near Singapore. The other Anzac frigate is in Auckland. Since the frigate has not been deployed, I suspect the NZ government will evacuate their citizens via aircraft, whether civilian or military. One aircraft can carry much more people than one frigate or OPV. The situation is different in Fiji compared to Tonga. Fiji is facing a military coup, whereas in Tonga, East Timor, and the Solomons, there were a dangerous mob running amok.
By the end of next year, New Zealand will have all of their Project Protector OPVs and IPVs in operational service. The MRV and OPVs will be the assets used to respond to an event in the South Pacific, especially the MRV. Unfortuanetly none of the Project Protector ships are available now.
As I noted in the first sentence of this post, the Labour government should have moved faster to acquire and build these ships. And I will add the National government should have funded either another frigate or the conversion of Charles Upham. Therefore, I placed blame on both parties. Its becoming very obvious that neither government expected so many problems in the South Pacific despite the warning signs of the first Fiji coup.
While the navy will be receiving new ships useful for sudden operations, I wonder whether their army is up to the task. NZ should have a sizable rapid reaction force, but as I see it they don't. Even with the MRV it will take a day or more to embark the LAVs and Pingauzers aboard the ship, with at least another day before arriving at Fiji.
Without an oiler, I doubt whether NZ could sustain a long naval presence at Fiji. Therefore, it appears NZ is banking on aircraft.
Last edited:
I see there are some questions to the Minister of Defence with regard to the procurement of the Mini-Typhoon system for the RNZN vessels :
http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/D...s=20&sort=Reference&order=1&search=-801180377
O not too worry, we will have to do most of the work in the pacific as always, with Kiwi Government sending troops when they are good and ready, like a bad guest to a party, last to arrive, first to leave, and a lot of bitching by the one who didn't want to be there in the first place. (not troops btw, RAR boys always speak highly of their work, not that they would tell them of course...)
It would be nice if they took a stick to the Fiji Commander while he was in Auckland, or even the cuffs as the Fiji police did request through Interpol, but hey, they don't want to "inflame" the situation, kinda hard to inflame a fire:jump
Surely you wouldn't want to kill or arrest someone entering your country under a white flag of diplomancy. I believe the most a nation can do is deport someone under diplomatic immunity.
With the frigate leaving harbor last evening, it should take about two days for the ship to arrive at Fiji. So New Zealand's navy is making a contribution. Since there hasn't been a coup yet, I wonder whether New Zealand is late to the party, maybe Australia arrived early. Early guests are as much of a pain as late ones.
With two operational frigates, one should be available for sudden deployments all of the time. However, if one of the two frigates is in a long refit period, during that time New Zealand risks none being available. This is why I support a third frigate.
The good news is when the two OPVs become operational within a year, New Zealand could substitute the OPVs for a frigate in low risk operations, or use the OPVs as a second ship deployed alongside either the MRV or a frigate.
I'm sure Australia would welcome any assistance from New Zealand. Better late than never.
I also wouldn't worry too much about the safety of Indian descendants at Fiji. When they start to bleed significantly, I expect an Indian naval task force will arrive within a month to settle the score.
With the frigate leaving harbor last evening, it should take about two days for the ship to arrive at Fiji. So New Zealand's navy is making a contribution. Since there hasn't been a coup yet, I wonder whether New Zealand is late to the party, maybe Australia arrived early. Early guests are as much of a pain as late ones.
With two operational frigates, one should be available for sudden deployments all of the time. However, if one of the two frigates is in a long refit period, during that time New Zealand risks none being available. This is why I support a third frigate.
The good news is when the two OPVs become operational within a year, New Zealand could substitute the OPVs for a frigate in low risk operations, or use the OPVs as a second ship deployed alongside either the MRV or a frigate.
I'm sure Australia would welcome any assistance from New Zealand. Better late than never.
I also wouldn't worry too much about the safety of Indian descendants at Fiji. When they start to bleed significantly, I expect an Indian naval task force will arrive within a month to settle the score.
Last edited:
Umm, I am pretty sure that Kiwi troops have been on the ground at the same time or within 24hrs of aussie troops in Timor, the Solomons, actually lead the way in Tonga....
Fiji is a complicated issue, I have talked to a couple of Fijian's here who support the military due to the corruption of the govt and rising crime rate that the police seem to be ineffective in combating.
Certainly a case off wait and see with the Fijian situation, I'm sure it would be a relatively bloodless Coup anyway, no need to inflame the situation, it is an internal Fijian matter afterall, up until the point where foreign nationals are threatened.
Just a thought if we did have our OPV's online and we deployed them to Fiji (due the the unavailability of a Frigate) would they be outgunned by the Fijian Navy ? :gun
Just a thought if we did have our OPV's online and we deployed them to Fiji (due the the unavailability of a Frigate) would they be outgunned by the Fijian Navy ? :gun
I don't think the Fijian Navy has anything heavier than 0.5 inch. The OPVs will have a fully stabilised, remote control 25mm gun, Seasprite and can carry a Platoon of infantry which could include ATGMs.
No they wouldn't be outgunned by the Fiji Navy. The Fiji army could do it with the 81mm Mortars, which have a range of 5000m (5Km) compared to the OPV 25mm of about 2500m.
I guess that is easy enough to defeat just don't go any closer than 5km to shore, I think effective range of the 25mm is more like 2km.
I note that the US Navy Mk 38 Mod 2 25mm gun system has the ability to select from 2 munition types (Sabot AP round or HE round) does the Typhoon mount have a similar capability based on the target being engaged ?
Te Mana is along side at present and on Tuesday (5/12/06) the Weekend NZ Herald has a brief note that Te Kaha and Endeavour will be back in port.
An update on the mini-typhoon gun installations from parliamentry questions :
17624 (2006). Allan Peachey to the Minister of Defence (16 Nov 2006): When will the new Rafael mini-typhoon gun direction system be installed?
Hon Phil Goff (Minister of Defence) replied: Subject to successful contract negotiations, the first Mini Typhoon remotely-operated stabilised gun system should be installed in late 2007, with the last being installed during the second quarter of 2008.
17624 (2006). Allan Peachey to the Minister of Defence (16 Nov 2006): When will the new Rafael mini-typhoon gun direction system be installed?
Hon Phil Goff (Minister of Defence) replied: Subject to successful contract negotiations, the first Mini Typhoon remotely-operated stabilised gun system should be installed in late 2007, with the last being installed during the second quarter of 2008.
To fire a moving OPV with 81mm mortar ?
A lucky shot maybe if don’t want to say it’s high unlikely for the moving target will get hit. Not to mention the OPV will not so silly put herself to close the land make her vurnerable to get fire from land base weapons.
rgds
Correctamundo....
the Kiwis have never been slack in fronting up with people for the jobIn fact, its more approp to let the Kiwis run lead in micronesia as they invariably have closer relationships in place.
who'd have though that WP would turn out to be a diplomat though - wonders never cease....
impossible to do unless a warrant was issued for his arrest from the Fijian Attorneys General.
Sorry for the late reply.
But this is driven by whatever country has the most relevant available forces in theatre or close to the theatre event.
we all have agreements with each other to hotswap rescues of each others nationals where necessary.
we (aust) have similar arrangements with the UK and France, and in areas like New Caledonia, we could have called on French assets to assist if they had been closer or available.
That maybe true, I'm not an expert in mortars
. There maybe occasions when the OPV may have to put herself within range (i.e escorting the MRV Landing Craft ashore) of shore based weapons. It that happens it has no effective means of counter fire (the need for a larger gun having been discussed elsewhere). Thats the risk NZ has taken in purchasing a single role vessel, something like the French Floreal would have been more appropriate.I think the hull design layout of the OPV is pretty good the only thing it really needs is an increase in weapons, which may be possible at a later date if the potential deployments are deemed worthy of some more "bite" , I note that the OPV is actually rated with a higher max speed than the French design.