Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

[stryker NZ]

Hopefully, whenever National gains power CIWS and chaff decoys will be acquired and installed on the MRV and OPVs. The good news is that these items can be installed quickly. I would keep their 25-mm Bushmasters, and add two CIWS on the MRV port and starboard, and one CIWS aft on the OPVs, below the hangar level. Chaff launchers should be installed on both types port and starboard by the bridge.

I think doing this will provide a sufficent soft defence against missiles. Both of these soft missile defences are easily installed and can be crossdecked if necessary.

what if the ANZACS get sea ram installed like the Aussie ones, would the CIWS from them still be capable enough to move across to some of the new ships? it would save money compared to having to buy all new ones maybe the government would be more willing to accept this.

 

[Gibbo]

Latest NZ Navy News (not posted on website yet) contains article on Rafael Mini-Typhoon mount with .5 cal HMG & TopLite electro-optical sensor. Article states this is being purchased for ANZAC Frigates as part of a 'layered' defence against surface craft (esp. FAC) - with Phalanx block 1B (incl. surface mode) the next layer out. Result of 'experience in the Gulf' - plus folowing up on Aussie experience.

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/naval/typhoon/Typhoon.html

Apparently the RNZN is only just about to entre negotiations for purchase, but looks certain to me they'll be purchased. No mention of how many per vessel - anyone know how many per Aussie ANZAC? I understand there are 6 HMG stations on the RNZN ANZACs - s/be 1 mini-typhoon per station in my book.

There no suggestion it will be extended to other classes, but to my mind if a vessel has an HMG currently there's a perceived need. If there's a need then the weapon should be operated as effectively as possible. The mini-typhoon not only provides vastly more accuracy & therefore better self-defence, but it avoids exposing a gun crew to hostile fire (except when reloading ammo).

 

[mug]

Good spotting - it's been sitting on my desk for a while, but I still haven't read it.

Any guesses as to what "being procured" means? Now? Next year? Five years?

 

[stryker NZ]

was that in the new navy today magazine?

 

[Aussie Digger]

Latest NZ Navy News (not posted on website yet) contains article on Rafael Mini-Typhoon mount with .5 cal HMG & TopLite electro-optical sensor. Article states this is being purchased for ANZAC Frigates as part of a 'layered' defence against surface craft (esp. FAC) - with Phalanx block 1B (incl. surface mode) the next layer out. Result of 'experience in the Gulf' - plus folowing up on Aussie experience.

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/naval/typhoon/Typhoon.html

Apparently the RNZN is only just about to entre negotiations for purchase, but looks certain to me they'll be purchased. No mention of how many per vessel - anyone know how many per Aussie ANZAC? I understand there are 6 HMG stations on the RNZN ANZACs - s/be 1 mini-typhoon per station in my book.

There no suggestion it will be extended to other classes, but to my mind if a vessel has an HMG currently there's a perceived need. If there's a need then the weapon should be operated as effectively as possible. The mini-typhoon not only provides vastly more accuracy & therefore better self-defence, but it avoids exposing a gun crew to hostile fire (except when reloading ammo).

Australian ANZAC frigates and FFG's only operate 2x mini-typhoon mounts per vessel. god knows why, even the control consoles are set up for 4 weapons, as seen here:

http://www.defence.gov.au/opcatalyst/images/gallery/20060705a/20060621adf8109730_005_lo.jpg

and here's a good shot of the weapon:

http://www.defence.gov.au/opcatalyst/images/gallery/20060705a/20060621adf8109730_110_lo.jpg

 

[mug]

was that in the new navy today magazine?

Yep. Navy Today 116 Nov 06 pg 28-29.

 

[KH-12]

Interesting that in the Maritime Forces Review document that a gun of 40-76mm was specified for the OPV and MRV designs :

http://www.defence.govt.nz/reports-publications/mfr/cap-req-pol-gaps.html

Sounds like budget may have been the main reason for the smaller weapon fit, one would imagine that the design was such that a larger weapon could be retrofitted at a later date as funding became available, the 25mm weapons could then be transferred to the IPV's.:gun

 

[stryker NZ]

Australian ANZAC frigates and FFG's only operate 2x mini-typhoon mounts per vessel. god knows why, even the control consoles are set up for 4 weapons, as seen here:

http://www.defence.gov.au/opcatalyst/images/gallery/20060705a/20060621adf8109730_005_lo.jpg

and here's a good shot of the weapon:

http://www.defence.gov.au/opcatalyst/images/gallery/20060705a/20060621adf8109730_110_lo.jpg

i dont get it how does a mini typhoon work i thought it was just a man operated stabalized HMG why does it need a control panel?

 

[gf0012-aust]

i dont get it how does a mini typhoon work i thought it was just a man operated stabalized HMG why does it need a control panel?

Mini typhoons are RWS and thus more suitable for protecting crew or employment where space is a premium...

 

[Aussie Digger]

i dont get it how does a mini typhoon work i thought it was just a man operated stabalized HMG why does it need a control panel?

As GF stated, they are operated completely remotely. The only time a person needs to be at the weapon is for loading/unloading, stoppages and for maintenance of the weapon.

As can be plainly seen from those images, each of the consoles can plainly control 2x weapons.

Why the Australian ships only operate 2 "mini-typhoons" is beyond me, but probably budget related or simply that the remaining systems have yet to be delivered...

 

[Gibbo]

Interesting that in the Maritime Forces Review document that a gun of 40-76mm was specified for the OPV and MRV designs :

http://www.defence.govt.nz/reports-publications/mfr/cap-req-pol-gaps.html

Sounds like budget may have been the main reason for the smaller weapon fit, one would imagine that the design was such that a larger weapon could be retrofitted at a later date as funding became available, the 25mm weapons could then be transferred to the IPV's.:gun

The MFR document was only a discussion document and AFAIK was not part of the Project Specification for Project Protector (anyone else privy to the original RFP???)

Whether the RFP specified smaller guns or whether Tenix simply offered only the 25mm / 12.75mm combo - who knows!?! There's certainly been plenty of discussion about the OPV & MRV being under-gunned - along with other self-defence systems such as CIWS!

Think we're all agreed that they should have more but the IPV & OPV will not be tasked as warships - more the CG cutter type of role. Therefore 25mm will be sufficient - although the bare minm for the role (as per normal NZ defence policy!) MRV is a different story but think we've done that to death as well!

Remembering of course that even if these vessels had the bigger weapons, they haven't got the damage tolerance of full military spec hulls and they don't have multiple redundancy in their various systems - so they will never be 'warships' as such! However they are going to prove excellent vessels at the tasks for which they have been built.

Addition of mini-typhoon should now proceed across the entire fleet in my mind, but don't hold your breath!

 

[stryker NZ]

As GF stated, they are operated completely remotely. The only time a person needs to be at the weapon is for loading/unloading, stoppages and for maintenance of the weapon.

As can be plainly seen from those images, each of the consoles can plainly control 2x weapons.

Why the Australian ships only operate 2 "mini-typhoons" is beyond me, but probably budget related or simply that the remaining systems have yet to be delivered...

oh my bad i should of read up on them that makes more sence thanks guys

 

[Norm]

thanks heaps i really appreciate it

Eta next week for some info.Every ones away at the moment!

 

[Norm]

Latest NZ Navy News (not posted on website yet) contains article on Rafael Mini-Typhoon mount with .5 cal HMG & TopLite electro-optical sensor. Article states this is being purchased for ANZAC Frigates as part of a 'layered' defence against surface craft (esp. FAC) - with Phalanx block 1B (incl. surface mode) the next layer out. Result of 'experience in the Gulf' - plus folowing up on Aussie experience.

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/naval/typhoon/Typhoon.html

Apparently the RNZN is only just about to entre negotiations for purchase, but looks certain to me they'll be purchased. No mention of how many per vessel - anyone know how many per Aussie ANZAC? I understand there are 6 HMG stations on the RNZN ANZACs - s/be 1 mini-typhoon per station in my book.

There no suggestion it will be extended to other classes, but to my mind if a vessel has an HMG currently there's a perceived need. If there's a need then the weapon should be operated as effectively as possible. The mini-typhoon not only provides vastly more accuracy & therefore better self-defence, but it avoids exposing a gun crew to hostile fire (except when reloading ammo).

Thanks for that.I was wondering what the RNZN was going to acquire.In the NZDF 2006 Statement of Intent page 180 $NZD4m. was set aside for " Frigate Short-range self protection capability".which we can now ID as being for the Typhoon systems .

 

[stryker NZ]

Thanks for that.I was wondering what the RNZN was going to acquire.In the NZDF 2006 Statement of Intent page 180 $NZD4m. was set aside for " Frigate Short-range self protection capability".which we can now ID as being for the Typhoon systems .

how much does a mini typhoon go for?

and thanks again for getting me that info

 

[Sea Toby]

I would assume NZ will acquire two per each frigate, one for starboard and one for port. I believe this is the amount Australia and the United States are buying for each of their warships, although America may buy more for their larger aircraft carriers. While underway at sea a frigate can get the 360 degree coverage simply by turning to port or starboard 20 degrees. This would be less of a course change than what the ships have done to provide the 360 degree coverage of the CIWS. As long as the ESSMs provide 360 degree coverage with their VLS, this should be suitable for a capable defence.

 

[Gibbo]

While on the subject of RNZN... why the hell hasn't the NZ Govt tasked a frigate up to the Fiji area to standoff with the RAN in case needed for civvy evac!?! What better example does NZ need for deploying it's vessels!?!

The Aussies aren't leaving it to chance - they did the same with East Timor earlier this year, where again NZ was caught on the backfoot!

Given there appears to be fighting talk with respect to attempts to land foreign troops and apparent threats to foreigners (not verified), isn't it time NZ finally realised this is what we supposedly have our forces for?

 

[Whiskyjack]

While on the subject of RNZN... why the hell hasn't the NZ Govt tasked a frigate up to the Fiji area to standoff with the RAN in case needed for civvy evac!?! What better example does NZ need for deploying it's vessels!?!

The Aussies aren't leaving it to chance - they did the same with East Timor earlier this year, where again NZ was caught on the backfoot!

Given there appears to be fighting talk with respect to attempts to land foreign troops and apparent threats to foreigners (not verified), isn't it time NZ finally realised this is what we supposedly have our forces for?

Probably has an agreement where the RAN takes care of our citizens, based on where the RNZN is deployed at any given time. There is a frigate in port, not sure as to it’s staus tho.

Having said that in all other Coups the Fijian's have made sure foreigners have been unmolested.

 

[Lucasnz]

While on the subject of RNZN... why the hell hasn't the NZ Govt tasked a frigate up to the Fiji area to standoff with the RAN in case needed for civvy evac!?! What better example does NZ need for deploying it's vessels!?!

The Aussies aren't leaving it to chance - they did the same with East Timor earlier this year, where again NZ was caught on the backfoot!

Given there appears to be fighting talk with respect to attempts to land foreign troops and apparent threats to foreigners (not verified), isn't it time NZ finally realised this is what we supposedly have our forces for?

or the government doesn't have a frigate available.

Personally I don't think the government has the stomach for deploying a frigate, it would mean we actually need them.

 

[icelord]

Your PM still takes the diplomatic way too much, you need diplomacy, but you also need a fall back. As said, we might be picking up kiwis as well as Aussies, if thats the case, you guys can sleep in the life rifts, due to lack of room of course