All of us presumed with a NH90 order the LUH would be a Eurocopter EC-135, but there doesn't seem to be any link now. The LUH could be any light helicopter next year, although I would say the favorite is still the EC-135. There really isn't much difference in the light helicopter category in price, to me the bigget difference is appearance.
Royal New Zealand Air Force
- Thread starter Lucasnz
- Start date
Sea Toby said:
I think that the A109 LUH is still a distinct possibility, plus the fact that having a wheeled U/C it would be easier to move around on the MRV if deployed alongside the NH90, apparently Augusta/Westland are very keen to have a presence in the NZ market at the moment, this would be a nice entry opportunity. Both the EC135 or A109 would be good aircraft.
It would depend on whether the powers that be consider the the LUH as a deployable asset or a stay at home one.KH-12 said:
I hope it is the former.
Yes hopefully logic will prevail, Phil Goff actually sounds like a reasonable Defence Minister for a change, good on him for getting the 9 NH90 approved, I'm sure there was a degree of resistance at the final cost from other members of cabinet. The A109 LUH comes with a defensive measures outfit so would be nice adjunct to the NH90 in a deployed operation, as long as no one tells Helen it has offensive capabilities they should get it through OKWhiskyjack said:
its all in the presentation.I would see it more as an economic issue, if you are deployed in a ET situation and you have an outpost in the jungle that requires re-supply/medivac etc, do you use a large expensive to operate helo like a NH90 or a smaller LUH? Same with VIP etc.KH-12 said:Yes hopefully logic will prevail, Phil Goff actually sounds like a reasonable Defence Minister for a change, good on him for getting the 9 NH90 approved, I'm sure there was a degree of resistance at the final cost from other members of cabinet. The A109 LUH comes with a defensive measures outfit so would be nice adjunct to the NH90 in a deployed operation, as long as no one tells Helen it has offensive capabilities they should get it through OK
It is a Helo that would allow for the NH90 to be tasked with a primary mission of transport of troops and equipment while being backed up by a cheaper to run LUH for general Liaison duties.
Yeah hope so too. Original plan (2002) was for a training chopper leased from & maintained by civvy contractor similar to 42Sqgn's B200's - guess that would have ruled out overseas deployments. However with the change to combined training/LU type that's probably not relevant anymore.Whiskyjack said:
The LUH will hopefully also be deployable on new RNZN OPV's when necessary as the 5 SH-2G's won't cover RNZN Op's + maintenance & training requirements at peak operational periods.
Hey read in the latest Pacific Wings mag that Govt is looking at 4-6 Q200 for RNZAF to cover transport; SAR & inshore aerial maritime patrol - I guess not unlike the Aussie's 'CoastWatch' a/c. AirNZ apparently likely to get the maintenance work. :dance :dance :dance
>>> Actually I'm very dubious about the accuracy of this report.
Surely the Govt's not about to suddenly announce a significant a/c purchase a week after being accused of mis-management of the NH-90 purchase price!?! There's certainly been no 'talk' of such a purchase although it does fit the bill for one of the projects WAY down the LTDP list - yet the Govt's said that the NH-90's are the 'last of the major LTDP purchases' (need Goff's statements clarified - what about all the stuff still on the list?)Anyone else got any comment about this report? Who's got their ear to the ground?
I thought that the govt got away with the annoucement of the NH90 cost very lightly, the opposition did'nt really run with it with any conviction (Winstons mozzie bite has gotten more airtime ! :loony ), maybe by "major" they mean $500M or moreGibbo said:Yeah hope so too. Original plan (2002) was for a training chopper leased from & maintained by civvy contractor similar to 42Sqgn's B200's - guess that would have ruled out overseas deployments. However with the change to combined training/LU type that's probably not relevant anymore.
The LUH will hopefully also be deployable on new RNZN OPV's when necessary as the 5 SH-2G's won't cover RNZN Op's + maintenance & training requirements at peak operational periods.
Hey read in the latest Pacific Wings mag that Govt is looking at 4-6 Q200 for RNZAF to cover transport; SAR & inshore aerial maritime patrol - I guess not unlike the Aussie's 'CoastWatch' a/c. AirNZ apparently likely to get the maintenance work. :dance :dance :dance
>>> Actually I'm very dubious about the accuracy of this report.
Anyone else got any comment about this report? Who's got their ear to the ground?
Interesting that none of the local media has picked up on the 9 NH90 versus 8 declared by the defence ministers press release. EADS are saying 9 and I guess they should know how many they have sold.Yes the LUH should make a good backup for the PP fleet if they get the right one (and numbers) It is slated to be used for aircrew training for the Sprites and the NH90 so should be capable of operating in the same environment as well so I would think a wheeled aircraft is a strong possibility which would push more towards the A109 rather than the EC135. I don't think anyone would really bulk at a $100M purchase for this item after the NH90 price revelation.
stryker NZ
New Member
how many A109 or EC135 would 100 million get the airforce because if their still going to go with the original number there not going to be much use for them other than training
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A109 is about $NZ8M probably more if you get the full military LUH version so say $NZ10M so if you go with a similar logistics support ratio to the NH90 deal you end up with say 6 or 7 airframes. The EC135 is abit cheaper but not that much , you might get one more airframe in. I think with 7 airframes you would still get a decent utility function out of them, I can't imagine you would be training more than 4 or 5 new Helicopter pilots per year you should be easily able to achieve this with 2 dedicated airframes.stryker NZ said:
Looks like the NH90's are getting new homes to be pampered in :
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0608/S00130.htm
Will be a shame if Whenuapai is ever let go as an airfield, would hope that it can be retained as a joint RNZAF/Civilian facility of some sort.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0608/S00130.htm
Will be a shame if Whenuapai is ever let go as an airfield, would hope that it can be retained as a joint RNZAF/Civilian facility of some sort.
Considering the size of New Zealand's Air Force, one base at Ohakea should be enough, except for possibly the SeaSprites. The SeaSprites should still be based near Auckland, but they don't require long runways or an airfield. One hangar and a small tarmac will do. Its best Whenuapai's real estate was sold to the highest bidder, the area appears ripe for residential development. To save some funds, I would suggest selling all of the land except for one hangar and a small tarmac that currently exists, no more of an intrusion into a residential area than a fire dept. station, hospital, or school.
In Hood County Texas, there is an exclusive lake resort community in a huge pecan grove with a small private airport. The mansions along the runway have garages for their cars, airplanes, and golf carts. Hee!
In Hood County Texas, there is an exclusive lake resort community in a huge pecan grove with a small private airport. The mansions along the runway have garages for their cars, airplanes, and golf carts. Hee!
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Yeah that might be OK, the land is actually a swamp and not overly suited to intensive residential development anyway. Besides for purely selfish reasons I like to fly out of there on the odd occasion . I think it is prudent to maintain a 2nd major air facility next to your major population centre.
. I think it is prudent to maintain a 2nd major air facility next to your major population centre.It is planned to keep 6 Sqn SeaSprites in Auckland - I understand the 2 options are (1) retain a presence at Whenuapai if it retains any airfield use (b) relocate to Akl International AirportSea Toby said:
I'm personally in favour of the second - it will stop any nagging by locals (including calls for no night-flying etc) who all moved near Whenuapai 50+ years after it was established & who ALL knew the AirForce where there. Plus as the Airport is already a dedicated aviation facility with established security elements etc it would simplify the whole damn thing!
What DOC do at Raoul and the military might be able to acheive are very 2 different things. I really do think the Raoul Is option would be stretched using a NH90 unless they had drums of fuel available in the back for the return journey. It might be a good strategic spot for a expansion of a military base, but unlikely due to mother natures extreme conditions in the region.
KH-12 said:
It makes sense on the latter, as we need the numbers to back up the short fall in the NH90s already on order. Probably whats best is that some can be used on deployment and some at home for domestic duties for our police forces and regional and training duties.
Whiskyjack said:
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The NH90 is a big chopper to put on the back of a OPV. Especially in comparison with the SH2G and its capabilities would way out hance the NH90 and give the OPV a more kick ass capability alongside our ANZACS. And we arent even sure that we can put in a NH90 into the back of a OPV. So, my guess is that the government will be in the hunt for 2 more SH2Gs in the future and we share the 5 SH2Gs in the mean time around the ANZACs and other surface units.
Gibbo said:Yeah hope so too. Original plan (2002) was for a training chopper leased from & maintained by civvy contractor similar to 42Sqgn's B200's - guess that would have ruled out overseas deployments. However with the change to combined training/LU type that's probably not relevant anymore.
The LUH will hopefully also be deployable on new RNZN OPV's when necessary as the 5 SH-2G's won't cover RNZN Op's + maintenance & training requirements at peak operational periods.
Hey read in the latest Pacific Wings mag that Govt is looking at 4-6 Q200 for RNZAF to cover transport; SAR & inshore aerial maritime patrol - I guess not unlike the Aussie's 'CoastWatch' a/c. AirNZ apparently likely to get the maintenance work. :dance :dance :dance
>>> Actually I'm very dubious about the accuracy of this report.
Anyone else got any comment about this report? Who's got their ear to the ground?
Yeah can't really see a NH-90 on the OPV's, but one on the MRV will at least be possible if SH2G airframes unavailable. When NZ purhased the SH2G they originally ordered 4 with 2 options. One of those options was taken up not long after so - but I guess the '2nd option' has long since lapsed. I'd be happy with even 1 additional SH2G - although 2's better! Unfortunately I see any additional SH2G unlikely.Markus40 said:
MG on RNZAF NH90
The current Huey's the RNZAF operate have 2x M60 machine guns and have trained-proffesional door gunners. The Hueys are being replaced in 2010 by 8 NH90's and 6+ Light helicopters. Will the new NH90's be armed with M60's or similar. It would take a RNZAF engineer 10 minutes to weld up a mount. I would love to see the NH90's with an MG so that they can cover dismounting soliders. Will the new NH90's be armed with an MG?
The current Huey's the RNZAF operate have 2x M60 machine guns and have trained-proffesional door gunners. The Hueys are being replaced in 2010 by 8 NH90's and 6+ Light helicopters. Will the new NH90's be armed with M60's or similar. It would take a RNZAF engineer 10 minutes to weld up a mount. I would love to see the NH90's with an MG so that they can cover dismounting soliders. Will the new NH90's be armed with an MG?
stryker NZ
New Member
you would hope so i wouldnt want to be a soldier jumping out of a chopper in hostile territory without at least some covering fire. Just a point of interest i heard from a Navy weapons engineer that the Airforce and Navy are gonna start putting snipers in the back of the helicopters for increased cover dont know how effective that would be but its something.
The advertisments showing the MRH-90 for the ADF show mounted 7.62 GPMGs mounted so I am sure it is an option for the NZ birds.