Royal New Zealand Air Force

[Traveller]

Borrowing is not the term. The correct term is "liberating" as per Air Board Orders .... well it was liberating when I was in .

In the most polite way I will indicate society has moved on since you were servicing Sopwith Camels in 1916. However, being Kiwi, I would not be limiting you to what sort of camels you serviced.*



*For foreigners ( you lot on this esteemed site that were not blessed to be Australian) it is in the Australian Constitution section B that at every opportunity all good Aussies need to remind the Kiwis of their place on the social ladder.

 

[Traveller]

In the long distant past the kiwi could fly which while not perfect is somewhat better than a kangaroo.
mind you a kangaroo burger probably tastes better. But as for flight hmm

Kiwi attempt...fail. Go to the back of the class. (oh, it's New Zealand....could be crowded there...)

 

[RegR]

Just for interest I saw a C17 at Ohakea this morning and later on today there was a trio of single seaters lining up to land at Ohakea. It was too far away to Identify the single seaters or the markings on the C17, but I assume they were Australian and the single seaters were F18's . Anyone know why they are here?

The C17s been here for about a week or so conducting low level flight training and like ngati said the F18s popped over for the airshow. I quite like how they come over for unfamiliar trg on a regular basis and always a bonus if they coincide with a display or 2 to boot, long may it continue and maybe one day the beehive might look up and think hey that's a good idea...wishful hoping.

 

[RegR]

Actually be good if we could keep them all busy until ANZAC day as well...

 

[Rob c]

Actually be good if we could keep them all busy until ANZAC day as well...

Our local area (Whanganui to Palmy) will have a fly past of a Spitfire, T6 and an Avenger, timed to be overhead Marton ( home) at 10 20. Should look awesome

 

[MrConservative]

In the most polite way I will indicate society has moved on since you were servicing Sopwith Camels in 1916. However, being Kiwi, I would not be limiting you to what sort of camels you serviced.*

I don't think NG smoked camel filters. He probably smoked Rothmans or Pall Mall Red back in the day.

*For foreigners ( you lot on this esteemed site that were not blessed to be Australian) it is in the Australian Constitution section B that at every opportunity all good Aussies need to remind the Kiwis of their place on the social ladder.

One of the reasons why New Zealand did not join the Federation according to University of Auckland historian Dr Felicity Barnes was at the time the view that Australia's convict past was considered a stain on the New Zealand settlement - and that caused a bit of cultural snobbery, where New Zealanders felt superior to Australians.

New Zealanders preferred not to consider that there might have been any trans-Tasman contamination over time. In essence, Kiwis thought themselves as being of superior racial stock to their Australian neighbours.

Of course constitutional law experts regard that with New Zealand becoming a Dominion in 1907 the section 6 reference in the Australian Constitution to New Zealand became a superfluous nullity. Then again continuing confusion over the law got Australians to where they ended up in the first place.

 

[ngatimozart]

Just for interest I saw a C17 at Ohakea this morning and later on today there was a trio of single seaters lining up to land at Ohakea. It was too far away to Identify the single seaters or the markings on the C17, but I assume they were Australian and the single seaters were F18's . Anyone know why they are here?

Update the, classic Hornets and accompanying C-130J are based at Woodbourne for the duration of Classic Fighters. Very short hop from Woodbourne for the display at Omaka - be lucky if it's four miles away, if that.

 

[ngatimozart]

I don't think NG smoked camel filters. He probably smoked Rothmans or Pall Mall Red back in the day.

Smoked Camels if they had them in the EMs Club VXE-6, out at Deep Freeze Harewood. At a couple of dimes a packet wasn't turning that down when smokes were about $1.00 - $1.50 a packet in NZ. Could only get about four packets at a time because wasn't based at Deep freeze so weren't allowed to buy cartons. Unlike the pilots of the Sopwith Camels I didn't get the$hits from the castor oil used to lubricate the Gnome rotary.

One of the reasons why New Zealand did not join the Federation according to University of Auckland historian Dr Felicity Barnes was at the time the view that Australia's convict past was considered a stain on the New Zealand settlement - and that caused a bit of cultural snobbery, where New Zealanders felt superior to Australians.

New Zealanders preferred not to consider that there might have been any trans-Tasman contamination over time. In essence, Kiwis thought themselves as being of superior racial stock to their Australian neighbours.

Of course we are. It's been well proven over the last 100+ years and I sure that sufficient scientific and legal evidence exists to support this

Of course constitutional law experts regard that with New Zealand becoming a Dominion in 1907 the section 6 reference in the Australian Constitution to New Zealand became a superfluous nullity. Then again continuing confusion over the law got Australians to where they ended up in the first place.

I believe that the main reason for NZ not joining the federation, was financial with NZ having a booming economy at the time and Australia being relatively broke. NZ pollies didn't want to have to pay Aussies mounting debts.

 

[KiwiRob]

One of the bigger reasons for not joining the Federation (I personally think not joining was a mistake).

Captain Russell then when on to make his point very forcefully: “…one of the important questions in New Zealand politics for many years to come must be that of native administration, and were we to hand over that question to a Federal Parliament-to an elective body, mostly Australians, that cares nothing and knows nothing about native administration, and the members of which have dealt with native races in a much more summary manner than we have ventured to deal with ours in New Zealand-the difficulty which precluded settlement for years in the North Island (of New Zealand) might again appear.”

ironic considering the huge numbers of Maori who have moved to Australia.

 

[Traveller]

I believe that the main reason for NZ not joining the federation, was financial with NZ having a booming economy at the time and Australia being relatively broke. NZ pollies didn't want to have to pay Aussies mounting debts.

My how the situation has changed...

 

[Traveller]

One of the bigger reasons for not joining the Federation (I personally think not joining was a mistake).



ironic considering the huge numbers of Maori who have moved to Australia.

Not just Maori. I have white Kiwis across the road. You only have to see the numbers of cars with map of Australia stickers with fern leaf overlay to see we have a plague .That being said, the non-export economy is continuing to slow. So unless Kiwi salaries and living standards are much lower then the economic based migration will slow.

 

[MrConservative]

My how the situation has changed...

End of the 1st quarter 2019 Government Debt to GDP percentage ratio has Australia at 41.2% versus New Zealand at 22.2% one of the lowest amongst OECD nations.

Meaning that the Commonwealth of Australia is carrying nearly twice as much debt as the Realm of New Zealand. I'd argue on the present evidence that it has not changed at all.

 

[Traveller]

End of the 1st quarter 2019 Government Debt to GDP percentage ratio has Australia at 41.2% versus New Zealand at 22.2% one of the lowest amongst OECD nations.

Meaning that the Commonwealth of Australia is carrying nearly twice as much debt as the Realm of New Zealand. I'd argue on the present evidence that it has not changed at all.

I think the picture is a little more complicated than one simple debt ratio. Comparing Australia to New Zealand on that level....apples and oranges. Household debt is on a global comparison very high, but then there is the capacity to pay. I'm no economist but I don't think a national economy can be compared on one metric.

Australia isn't perfect but on observational metrics it must be doing very well. So in honour of our Kiwi membership, let's stand, raise a toast and sing the Kiwi national anthem: "We still call Australia home"

 

[MrConservative]

I think the picture is a little more complicated than one simple debt ratio. Comparing Australia to New Zealand on that level....apples and oranges. Household debt is on a global comparison very high, but then there is the capacity to pay. I'm no economist but I don't think a national economy can be compared on one metric.

It is apples to apples - as your originating retort concerned an historical comparison of debt. GDP to Debt ratios are a fundamental indicator of a nations economic health. You made a comment inferring debt was now a major issue in NZ compared to 100 years ago. My comments concerned that. Not an overarching comparison of economies.

Household debt (home mortgage based) which is relatively high in both countries, but what is especially problematic for the Australian economy is negative equity on household debt is now at 10%.

Australia isn't perfect but on observational metrics it must be doing very well. So in honour of our Kiwi membership, let's stand, raise a toast and sing the Kiwi national anthem: "We still call Australia home"

Very droll. The key takeway is that both Australia and New Zealand are doing well in comparison to other OECD nations, especially compared to the EU. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, and both of these rise and fall at particular times due to political fortunes.

Dragging this all back to the RNZAF - New Zealand's comparatively low GDP to Debt ratio means that there is considerable headroom for a New Zealand government to borrow to reinvest into Defence Capability.

 

[RDB]

End of the 1st quarter 2019 Government Debt to GDP percentage ratio has Australia at 41.2% versus New Zealand at 22.2% one of the lowest amongst OECD nations.

Meaning that the Commonwealth of Australia is carrying nearly twice as much debt as the Realm of New Zealand. I'd argue on the present evidence that it has not changed at all.

Net government debt for Australia is slightly under 19% of GDP.

 

[RDB]

One of the bigger reasons for not joining the Federation (I personally think not joining was a mistake).



ironic considering the huge numbers of Maori who have moved to Australia.

And ironic because New Zealand's Maori Wars were not replicated across the Tasman.

 

[Cadredave]

And ironic because New Zealand's Maori Wars were not replicated across the Tasman.

First off its the New Zealand wars not Maori wars and what the hell this has to do with RNZAF is now beyond me...come on people get back on track this thread is starting to look like redit...

 

[MrConservative]

Net government debt for Australia is slightly under 19% of GDP.

It is too and that fiscal position includes loans made to the States within the Federation and the domestic student loan scheme, foreign currency holdings, cash, financial instruments both domestic and overseas, but does not include unfunded superannuation for example. There still is the issue of core external debt servicing (offshore creditors) which is encapsulated in a gross debt exposure. A net government debt position can offset that but the difficultly is countries have varying exposure domestically and externally to the types of financial instruments that offset external debt.

Anyway back to the RNZAF even though finance is much more fun and much more interesting.

OK ... maybe not.

 

[oldsig127]

Unlike the pilots of the Sopwith Camels I didn't get the$hits from the castor oil used to lubricate the Gnome rotary.

Hardly any pilots were so affected, since the great majority of Camels had Clerget engines (except the 2F1 which used a Bentley BR.1). However, I'll concede the effect of castor oil, having been dosed with it as a child. So what did give you the $hits Ng? I suffer from Kiwi in-laws who won't pay for their round and their government which wouldn't pay for the Defence forces they worked in. ;-)

oldsig

 

[ngatimozart]

Hardly any pilots were so affected, since the great majority of Camels had Clerget engines (except the 2F1 which used a Bentley BR.1). However, I'll concede the effect of castor oil, having been dosed with it as a child. So what did give you the $hits Ng? I suffer from Kiwi in-laws who won't pay for their round and their government which wouldn't pay for the Defence forces they worked in. ;-)

oldsig

OT, give your in laws a good dose of castor oil then because such behaviour isn't condoned this side of the ditch either. Both of those situations give me the $hits and the grumps.