The thought crosses my mind that if the RNZAF does go fo a split fleet, the C-27J may be a better option. While the C2295 is cheaper, the Spartan offers significantly greater performance across payload, range and speed, making it better able to pick up the slack of an aging C-130 fleet pending the delivery of a replacement post 2020.
Royal New Zealand Air Force
- Thread starter Lucasnz
- Start date
the unspoken assessment criteria is "interoperability with likeminded partners"
I'm not sure what the weighting is for kiwi acquisition assessments.
it has some traction though within the 5I's community
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
A couple of links that may be of interest
https://www.facebook.com/RoyalNewZealandAirForce/posts/761919167275738
RNZAF facebook page photos of NZ, Australian and French aircraft in Nausori.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/rnzaf-nh90-embarks-on-first-deployment-422505/
Flightglobal covers the first deployment of NZ's NH90s. The story obviously went to print before the number of Seasprites was cut back to one. Not sure if that was because of space reasons on board, the availability of other helicopters (primarily Australian) in Fiji, or difficulty finding a servicable airframe among the 'old' Sprites.
https://www.facebook.com/RoyalNewZealandAirForce/posts/761919167275738
RNZAF facebook page photos of NZ, Australian and French aircraft in Nausori.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/rnzaf-nh90-embarks-on-first-deployment-422505/
Flightglobal covers the first deployment of NZ's NH90s. The story obviously went to print before the number of Seasprites was cut back to one. Not sure if that was because of space reasons on board, the availability of other helicopters (primarily Australian) in Fiji, or difficulty finding a servicable airframe among the 'old' Sprites.
One Sprite is operational and the other is the back up bird. This is the last deployment for the old Sprites.
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
It'll be doing the backing up from Auckland then, as the most recent Navy info has the number of helicopters on board listed as three rather than the earlier 4.
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
NZDF - NH90 Flare Trial a Success
Photo of NH90 firing countermeasure flares last month. They appear to have a much more unpredictable flight path compared to those seen on the Herc, based on the photo provided.
Photo of NH90 firing countermeasure flares last month. They appear to have a much more unpredictable flight path compared to those seen on the Herc, based on the photo provided.
Would'nt that just be the rotor downwash affecting the trails not the chaff following that path. Along with the angle of the shot would actually be a pretty symetrical launch otherwise.
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
Seeing it was mentioned other day NH90 was used in the recent bay of plenty seige where a gunman was shooting at spotter aircraft as well as cops, what sort of protection would NH90 have to counter small arms fire?
Seems as though there is 2 sprites in Fiji judging by the latest pics, 2 can clearly be seen on CYs flightdeck in the backround of latest pics.
Pretty sure the 90 was there just to transport AOS/STG in quickly an doubt it would have flown into harms way unless the cops were going to rapel in (again not very likely being single story domestic dwelling). If they needed guess like the hueys they could fit kevlar pilot seats and possibly deck failing that crew don IBA. Don't think they would mount the mag58 in such a situation, police could just employ their weapons if need be but again 90 would just remain out of sight/range of the target house anyway so somewhat moot.
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
http://airforce.mil.nz/downloads/pdf/airforce-news/afn178.pdf
Latest Air Force News out now.
Highlights include coverage of the 50th anniversary of the Orion in NZ service, details of the new pistol and rifle purchases (I guess this will go into all service magazines) and info on the first Wings course on the new Texans.
Latest Air Force News out now.
Highlights include coverage of the 50th anniversary of the Orion in NZ service, details of the new pistol and rifle purchases (I guess this will go into all service magazines) and info on the first Wings course on the new Texans.
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/mil-log/fidae-2016-second-kc-390-flight-imminent/
I'd regard it as the longest of long shots for NZ (ok, maybe on par with Japan's XC-2 heavy lifter), but it is nice to see Brazil's KC-390 progressing through trials towards production. A shame about the country's economy and political dysfunction, as they could undermine all of Embraer's good work.
Geopolitical realities aside, having the KC-390 on the market would pose an interesting theoretical question for NZ MinDef. In comparing a twin-jet with a quad-turboprop, how would NZ weigh up the benefits of faster transit time and smoother ride against reduced short-field and low-speed performance. My impression is that in Pacific relief efforts, the true short-field capabilities of the C-130 are rarely used.
I'd regard it as the longest of long shots for NZ (ok, maybe on par with Japan's XC-2 heavy lifter), but it is nice to see Brazil's KC-390 progressing through trials towards production. A shame about the country's economy and political dysfunction, as they could undermine all of Embraer's good work.
Geopolitical realities aside, having the KC-390 on the market would pose an interesting theoretical question for NZ MinDef. In comparing a twin-jet with a quad-turboprop, how would NZ weigh up the benefits of faster transit time and smoother ride against reduced short-field and low-speed performance. My impression is that in Pacific relief efforts, the true short-field capabilities of the C-130 are rarely used.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
As the article mentions, Embraer is offering the KC-390 for Canada's FWSAR requirement against the C-27J and C-295. The KC-390's faster speed will be an advantage as the RCAF still insists on southern basing for SAR. The extra cargo capacity would be useful as well. Unfortunately political factors will be a disadvantage as Bombardier will not want to see its major competitor benefitting financially from a Canadian military sale. If Embraer gets this jet right, it should be very successful.
Continuing with the horse racing terms
the KC390 would be a roughy, an outsider which some might put a few dollars on, each way (win and place bet) hoping that they might come in. If they do the window at the back of the Tot(aliser - pay out window) is well worth the visit because of the winnings The Kawasaki C2 was in a holding pattern because of developmental / budgetary reasons, however it is thought that it's in-service date was to be late last year or sometime this year. It is more of an A400M size rather than a C130 size which would be advantageous over the KC390. However whether or not a NH90 Warrior would fit in it is an unknown (internal hold dimensions). The KC390 would take a fully kitted up NZLAV weight wise, being able to lift 26 tonnes however the internal dimensions of the hold would determine whether or not it could carry them. If I was to choose between the two I would opt for the C2 purely because of capability If we didn't get C17As and A400Ms were unavailable in the time frame required.
On another note it was posted on a well known Kiwi Aviation forum that the RNZAF commentator at the 2016 Warbirds Over Wanaka said that the C17A, A400M and C130J were still in the frame for the Future Air Mobility Project. I think that the commentator may just be following the standard party line. There are rumours flowing around the flight lines, crew rooms etc., within the service and ex RNZAF community and it can be somewhat difficult to glean any nuggets of useful info out of them because in the services rumour starting can also be considered a sport
Also note the second deployment of a King Air to an overseas operation that I hadnt previously noticed (To Fiji for Cyclone Winston support). Sensibly allowing them to pull some operational weight but perhaps a nod that smaller platforms could have their uses too in the P-3/C-130 replacement mix
It is a good point you make and I have been giving it some thought over time. We've thrashed the various Future Air Mobility platform combinations over time but we haven't looked hard at where the Future MEPT is going. Is it that the MEPT will be simulation based and then the trainees go on to the squadrons for the actual flights; or will they use a dedicated multiengine platform for the actual flights? The current B200 lease finishes in 2018.
Looking at the EEZ surveillance side, the more I think about it the more I have come around to Mr C's idea of using the B350ER for that role. However I would suggest that it should be fitted with a maritime surveillance radar, AIS and an EO turret. It doesn't need to be armed but it should have SAR capability. Yes the sensors cost but they are required. The B350, probably not the ER, could also be used in the B200 role.
Looking at future airborne surveillance platform I still am of the opinion that the Bombardier G6000 SAAB Swordfish combination is better for the NZDF than the P8 because of the cost alone and with limited funds we can obtain more platforms than we could if we acquired the P8. A combination of both the light and heavier platform would be beneficial in the long term.
the biggee is that it needs to be able to duplex across the spectrum... both hi and lo if its not acting as an ISR/INT asset in its own right.
most of these conversions are picking up dual hat roles as militaries work out that govts find them easier to digest and accept if they can fulfill some HADR support roles as well as their discretionary hat
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
Would New zealand ,Australia for that matter be traditionally bound to purchase from only allies like Britian, Usa when purchasing planes as Russia and China never seems to enter the equation. They are major manufacturers after all. China seems very adept at cloning designs like the C17 and F35 they copied.
:hehe
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
There are potential issues with quality, as well as support costs, and for that matter the entire support chain.
IIRC at one of the Avalon airshows within the last decade or so, Russia wanted to send either a MiG-29 or Su-27/30 to participate. However, the aircraft did not participate because the aircraft was not allowed to operate in Australian airspace due to concerns over reliability.
Also the Russian/Soviet support philosophy for aircraft engines was (and perhaps still is) a bit different from how Western aircraft are supported. Again, IIRC the Russian engines need to be overhauled more frequently, which was typically done as part of a large scale overhaul activity at centralized depots. The Western philosophy is for less frequent overhauls, which are done usually at the base an aircraft operates at. Both methods have the potential to deliver similar overall efficiency, under the proper conditions. The more frequent, centralized overhauls does need a certain volume of work to be efficient which I believe India has had some trouble achieving. For nations with smaller air forces, I highly doubt the scale of work would approach what would be required to be efficient.
I have not even mentioned the risks and difficulties in either integrating Western avionics into Russian or Chinese aircraft, or adapting their avionics to mesh with Western systems.
I wouldn't even go there TBH. As Tod has pointed out there would be a surfeit of issues regarding them. As an example, in Tonga a local airline, Real Tonga subsidised by the Tongan govt, had undertaken internal flights using Chinese Xian MA60 turboprop airliners. The NZG issued a traveller warning and suspended tourist aid because the aircraft didn't have recognised international civil aviation certification.