John Fedup
The Bunker Group
I believe Boeing has a Posiden-light concept MPA based on a Challenger 605, co-developed with Field Avivation. Haven't heard much about it lately.
Royal New Zealand Air Force
- Thread starter Lucasnz
- Start date
there's been a concerted push on medium range SBJ's for the MPA role for the last 3 years - most are still paper proposals
Had a bit of a laugh when i read your post as I had just finished reading the following:
Boeing’s Maritime Aircraft Options Dominate Singapore Airshow
Be interesting to see just how far down the road Boeing is with Challenger 605 version.
Not the Boeing variant, but SAAB have moved the Swordfish maritime patrol system from legacy SAAB aircraft to Q400 turboprop and Bombardier Global 6000 Jet.
Saab's Swordfish MPA rolls out onto new airframes.
They also have an interesting AEW&C project, GlobalEye also based on the Bomardier Global 6000 aircraft. It offers air, land and maritime surveillance as well as C4 and sigint all on the one airframe.
Saab introduces GlobalEye AEW aircraft.
The new Swordfish system might actually be an ideal Orion replacement for NZ rather than the P8. It has a greater range and loitre time, probably lower acquisition costs and lower operating costs, meaning that it may be possible to replace the Orions on a one for one basis. Regarding the GlobalEye system, whilst I am not suggesting that we should acquire it, the system does have some capabilities that the NZG may like, plus if, for example, three aircraft were acquired, they would be good force multipliers in an allied or coalition situation. They would most certainly add to the ANZAC capabilities. Just a thought on a tangential poi.
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More than a project. It's been sold. The UAE ordered two last November.
A positive news story for the NH-90; The first SAR mission I've noted that is both further far from base than normal and in conditions too dicey for more local rescue helicopters. [edit: For non-kiwis the distance is between 200-250kms, mostly over water as the base and rescue were in each of the two main islands]
Pair winched to safety in 'atrocious conditions' near Farewell Spit | Stuff.co.nz
Pair winched to safety in 'atrocious conditions' near Farewell Spit | Stuff.co.nz
The included video shows they had quite a long way to be winched up. Quite a large crew too?
I did read that it had been sold, however in some ways it can still be regarded as a project. Yes I know it's probably semantics but it's still quite interesting nonetheless. The US are looking at biz jets like this with their JSTARS replacement program which is in its early stages at the moment.
Yeah, it's a minor semantic point. Not important.
There have been some interesting developments in ISTAR adaptations of business jets.
The UK has a Raytheon radar on a Global Express for ground surveillance, the Sentinel R1. The current government decided soon after being elected in 2010 to retire them as soon as we stopped using 'em in Afghanistan,despite the system being new - & then along came Libya, & allies asking "please, could you be so kind as to deploy your very useful indeed Sentinels?", & other requests for their use by our army & the armies & air forces of allies - so used in Mali, Nigeria, Iraq - even used in support of the civil administration in floods in the UK. Last I heard the retirement date had become a sort of rolling 'a few years in the future'.
The new Erieye version (apparently with GaN modules) on a much more capable platform than earlier models looks as if it has the potential to be a serious competitor for the current US AEW offerings, rather than just a cheap & cheerful alternative for those who can't afford better. The Globaleye system sold to the UAE also includes a good surface search radar (Selex Seaspray 7500E).
The Israeli CAEW modification of the Gulfstream G550 is another good example of a capable system on a business jet. The Israelis previously used a Boeing 707 as a platform, but they now have a radar which is both smaller & better performing, & Singapore & Italy have both decided it's worth buying.
There have been some interesting developments in ISTAR adaptations of business jets.
The UK has a Raytheon radar on a Global Express for ground surveillance, the Sentinel R1. The current government decided soon after being elected in 2010 to retire them as soon as we stopped using 'em in Afghanistan,despite the system being new - & then along came Libya, & allies asking "please, could you be so kind as to deploy your very useful indeed Sentinels?", & other requests for their use by our army & the armies & air forces of allies - so used in Mali, Nigeria, Iraq - even used in support of the civil administration in floods in the UK. Last I heard the retirement date had become a sort of rolling 'a few years in the future'.
The new Erieye version (apparently with GaN modules) on a much more capable platform than earlier models looks as if it has the potential to be a serious competitor for the current US AEW offerings, rather than just a cheap & cheerful alternative for those who can't afford better. The Globaleye system sold to the UAE also includes a good surface search radar (Selex Seaspray 7500E).
The Israeli CAEW modification of the Gulfstream G550 is another good example of a capable system on a business jet. The Israelis previously used a Boeing 707 as a platform, but they now have a radar which is both smaller & better performing, & Singapore & Italy have both decided it's worth buying.
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t68
Well-Known Member
Maybe because we have a different approach due to the different govt attitude to defenceIF the Tigers came this side of the ditch we would probably use some for spares and that solves the AOG problems. We do the same with the NH90s and the Sprites. That way we keep the aircraft flying and are not waiting for an aircraft manufacturer to ship spares via the slow boat to Jupiter. Regarding the CPFH, that's an altogether another matter.
Our PM is spending today and the weekend with your PM. Maybe PM Turnbull can make PM Key an offer that he can't refuse
Vonn: No we will not take Tasmania under any circumstances. Maybe you should offer it to HE Field Marshall Fleet Admiral Commodore Frank Bainimarama, the glorious and exalted all wise leader of Fiji. He would be wanting some lebensraum
I like your style NG
But in regards to Tiger for NZ, I just think there are better option for defence in regards to battlefield reconnaissance aircraft either armed or not. if anything I believe you should be picking up our CH47D as we know RNZAF wanted a minimum of 11 NH-90 so that would go some way to rectifying that problem.
Other option I believe RNZAF should look at is either the additional Super King Airs fitted out to similar spec as the MC 12W Liberty or perhaps as part of the reveiw of air transport capabilty with MC-27J Praetorian or AC-295 or if it must be rotary SH-2G could be turned into a H2 Tomahawk if your really game.
I just think NZ have better options than cast off ARH from the ADF, my 2 cents worth
If the RNZAF was going to go into more ISR capable, I would probably suggest something along the lines of the SAAB GlobalEye or similar where you can obtain really good high resolution radar and IR images etc., across the land and maritime domains. With GlobalEye in particular you also have the air domain as well, which is a distinct advantage for AEW ops but would that particular capability be of use to the RNZAF? To me the MC12 Liberty would be limiting in the long run, that's all.
The only things that I like about the Tiger are that 30mm cannon, the wing stub capabilities and the fact that it has wheeled feet I instead of skids. The sailor in me is not that keen on skids on decks. The USN and USMC might do it and like it, but we are not them. So apart from my being pedantic about the feet on it
, the AH-1Z would do pretty well in NZ service. However as we all are only to well aware, as much as we may like such things and see the logic in such acquisitions, it is the pollies who make the final decisions about matters such as that.Munted Chook D's? The Roo Army will have flown them pretty hard, so how much use would we get before we would have to either do a major SLEP, or a refurbish? Maybe in the long term new build F's would be better. Of course this is conditional upon the NZG deciding that it will fund chooks.
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
A welcome sign that the NH90 more usable in the field.
If the Canterbury is sent to Fiji for cyclone reconstruction, I wonder if the NH90 is now considered mature enough to be deployed? It wasn't at the time of Cyclone Pam in Vanuatu, but there has been a deployment on exercises to Australia since then.
Elsewhere, the Belgians are steadily bringing their maritime version into service.
Belgian Navy trains with new Caiman helicopters | Naval Today
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
Adaptations Bring CN235/C295 Sales Rewards For Airbus | Defense News: Aviation International News
Nice round-up of the C235/295 programme. It's success is neatly summarised here
Nice round-up of the C235/295 programme. It's success is neatly summarised here
Also a kiwi mention
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
Read the article, thanks for that. I agree, a single fleet for MPA, transport does look good on paper, but what solution does Airbus have in mind, A 400M for airlift and C295 for MPA, or C295 for both? id prefer the former option. Do like the mention of firefighting as a capability, given the droughts we regularly have in Canterbury.
Or the STOL capability, seeing most of the runways in the pacific arent up to scratch, further hampered by recent cyclones. Refueling too as an option would certainly be a great addition to any coalition exersize or deployment.
Or the STOL capability, seeing most of the runways in the pacific arent up to scratch, further hampered by recent cyclones. Refueling too as an option would certainly be a great addition to any coalition exersize or deployment.
t68
Well-Known Member
you can do all that with CH-47F with refueling probe as well.
While not the ideal solution as far as I am aware that single white tail is still available,
1x C17 Globemaster (Boeing) delivery starting late 2016
2X MRTT (or Boeing KC-46 Pegasus) delivery starting 2018?
4x C130-30J (Lockheed Martin)delivery starting 2020
4X CH-47F.(Boeing) delivery starting 2018
But a more realistic scenario $ would be,
3x A400M (Airbus) delivery starting 2022
6X C295 ( Airbus) delivery starting 2018
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
Six yrs to deliver 3 A 400M ? have they still got issues with delivery, seems like a hell of a long wait for 3 airframes. Best order a few more then :] Alternatly, i hear other nations have revised their orders, would we be able to purchase a 'second hand ' fleet of A 400M one of those european countries?
It's really hard to say. I feel that if they went with the solitary C17A, if it is still available my suggestion would be:
- 1 x C17A - delivery 2016
- 2 x KC30MRTT delivery starting 2018
- 6 x C130J-30 delivery starting end 2017
- 3 x CH47F Chooks - delivery starting 2017
- 6 x A400M - delivery starting 2022 (unfortunately earliest slots)
- 6 or 8 C295 - delivery start end 2016 if possible
The production line's booked up, all slots spoken for years ahead & it's not worthwhile increasing capacity for a small order.
Your alternative suggestion is a possibility, though. I think Spain would like to offload a few. Or rather, the Spanish treasury would. AFAIK the air force & army would prefer to keep all those on order, but the budget's been cut. France is hurrying to get its lot into service ASAP as its Transalls are wearing out, as are the Luftwaffe's, & Germany's reduced order has already been taken into account in the production planning.
[Edit] Spain's agreed a postponement of the A400M it has on order but which aren't financed, so they won't be on the market. Production has been pushed into the future. The remainder are needed (urgently according to what the AF has previously said) & won't be for sale.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/spain-and-airbus-agree-temporary-reduction-in-a400m-419604/
I imagine some partners would be very keen to accommodate production line shifts (read Spain/Germany).
Not the French though, their transport fleet is shagged and they need all the capacity they can get.
t68
Well-Known Member
For the RNZAF I don't think your A400M numbers are over the top, as the more airframes the more they can control long term flight hours to get the maximum out of the capability as we have seen with the C130H fleet which has clocked up 50 years of service. Will be interesting to see if the A400 could do the same.
that single white tail with careful planning will be of enormous benefit I would want a undertaking that NZ could get its hands on a couple of mothballed C17 before the white tail has to go into deeper maintenance, I lead to believe 16 airframes are being made inactive.
I imagine if Airbus want the good PR they will bend over backwards to get the airframes in the quickest amount of time to NZ. But the only reason I suggested that time frame was I believe in the short term the battlefield lifter would be more advantageous to RNZAF at this time which would also take the pressure of the existing C130H fleet if they decided to go Airbus, its the same as the white tail would have an impact in the short term as well, but if that white tail is available we know it can be delivered this year .Does anyone know where they are storing it(C17)?
I actually believe that new production slots are not available until 2022. Yes there maybe earlier production slots that maybe made available, however that cannot be taken as a given. Hence that's why we say 2022.