Royal Netherlands Navy

[StobieWan]

Do the Dutch use foreign designs? Type 26 would likely tick a few boxes (it's relatively large, quiet and has a flexible mission bay running alongside the fairly roomy hangar.The rest of it can be configured relatively easily (the mast is modular and can be swapped out as part of a mid life refit fairly easily for instance, so putting in a sensor fit using Dutch radar should be achievable)

It'd certainly not be a wild flight of fantasy.

 

[Volkodav]

Do the Dutch use foreign designs? Type 26 would likely tick a few boxes (it's relatively large, quiet and has a flexible mission bay running alongside the fairly roomy hangar.The rest of it can be configured relatively easily (the mast is modular and can be swapped out as part of a mid life refit fairly easily for instance, so putting in a sensor fit using Dutch radar should be achievable)

It'd certainly not be a wild flight of fantasy.

They have in the past, i.e. the Leanders, and have also been involved in several cooperative programs that ranged from sharing some systems to having common hulls. e.g. Tromps had the same propulsion as contemporary UK frigates and destroyers, S / 122 frigates, etc.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

I think Indonesia is one of the most loyal costumers of the Dutch shipyards.
Nine of our ten frigates are from the Netherlands, a couple of years ago we bought four SIGMA 9113 corvettes, and we still have two Alkmaar-klasse minehunters in service.
Besides that we have two SIGMA 10514 frigates on order, what Ananda already told, which are under construction in Surabaya by PT PAL using modules locally made and sent from Roemenie and the Netherlands.
Most of your (Walter) questions are already answered by the other forumers, but Indonesia’s addiction to Dutch warships shows us that Indonesia (like many other countries) acknowledges the quality of the products of Dutch shipyards AND Hollandse Signaal Apparaten/Thales Nederland.
Not only the Dutch made warships use HAS radarsystems and other sensors, but also some PT PAL made patrolboats and the South-Korean made missile boats use systems like the WM28.

For the two SIGMA 10514 frigates, we will get the Oerlikon Millenium 35 mm CIWS. The Goalkeeper is maybe better, but hey, its also much more expensive. Besides that, the Goalkeeper uses the American GAU-8, which makes it more complicater for export-licences and in case of embargos.

 

[walter]

I think Indonesia is one of the most loyal costumers of the Dutch shipyards.
Nine of our ten frigates are from the Netherlands, a couple of years ago we bought four SIGMA 9113 corvettes, and we still have two Alkmaar-klasse minehunters in service.
Besides that we have two SIGMA 10514 frigates on order, what Ananda already told, which are under construction in Surabaya by PT PAL using modules locally made and sent from Roemenie and the Netherlands.
Most of your (Walter) questions are already answered by the other forumers, but Indonesia’s addiction to Dutch warships shows us that Indonesia (like many other countries) acknowledges the quality of the products of Dutch shipyards AND Hollandse Signaal Apparaten/Thales Nederland.
Not only the Dutch made warships use HAS radarsystems and other sensors, but also some PT PAL made patrolboats and the South-Korean made missile boats use systems like the WM28.

For the two SIGMA 10514 frigates, we will get the Oerlikon Millenium 35 mm CIWS. The Goalkeeper is maybe better, but hey, its also much more expensive. Besides that, the Goalkeeper uses the American GAU-8, which makes it more complicater for export-licences and in case of embargos.

Sandhi,

The fact that Indonesia uses dutch design,may have something to do with the ties these 2 nations have with each other.(offcourse quality must be there too,you can have ties but if the other is making "crap",you won't buy)
Alkmaars are getting on also(getting old,but still very good minehunters,maybe something to replace too in the (near)future(if there's budget offcourse)About the T-26's weel that was just something i noticed looking at the model the KM presented for the FC's(Future Combatant)

 

[walter]

They have in the past, i.e. the Leanders, and have also been involved in several cooperative programs that ranged from sharing some systems to having common hulls. e.g. Tromps had the same propulsion as contemporary UK frigates and destroyers, S / 122 frigates, etc.

Quite right,so why not in the future?(looks like a fine ship,T-26,so for me it's a yes)But i have nothing to say in KM matters,lol

 

[walter]

Do the Dutch use foreign designs? Type 26 would likely tick a few boxes (it's relatively large, quiet and has a flexible mission bay running alongside the fairly roomy hangar.The rest of it can be configured relatively easily (the mast is modular and can be swapped out as part of a mid life refit fairly easily for instance, so putting in a sensor fit using Dutch radar should be achievable)

It'd certainly not be a wild flight of fantasy.

as said in previous post fine by me,let's go for it(if there's money to do so)and when we do,maybe the brits can buy some of our Holland class opv(everybody's happy)and adjust it to their taste.

 

[swerve]

We're still waiting for you to buy something from us after we built four LSDs of your design, 10 years ago.

 

[walter]

We're still waiting for you to buy something from us after we built four LSDs of your design, 19 years ago.

well could be that since that time(19 yrs)nothing of interest came from you,lets joke)but with the type 26 i think you've got a real winner(chance of that changing)

 

[swerve]

Slip of the fingers: it was roughly 10 years ago, with the last one commissioned in 2007.

 

[walter]

Slip of the fingers: it was roughly 10 years ago, with the last one commissioned in 2007.

Np,

But as said with the Future Combetant they're is maybe ordering in the making(not responsible for the budget though,But i my opinion it's going to be a real nice one,and hope that the Dutch will buy aswell(at least 2,For replacing M-Class,hopefully 4)

gr,walter

ps,and hopefully(as said)some "return" buying from the Brits,so everybody's happy.

 

[walter]

I now hope that the succession for the Walrus(wich will be done by Saab and Damen)will be evenly advanced as the Walrus was(from what i read on forums and internet,since i'm no expert:daz),they're still considered one of the best conventionals,after offcourse the Australians,japanese,germans,french, Swedes,mmmmmm they must have sucked:finger(just kidding,some selfdepriciation)

I read on the dutch defense forums navy wants 6(to get at least 4)

To be honest though,i really want to see your opinions on the Walrus(how was/is it ?)


Maybe a dificult one because it's a sort of inbetween class,not as small as the normal diesels,but not as big as let's say Collins or Oyashio.
must be not too bad,opinions?

this is not a best or worst question,just your honest opinions,pls.

gr,walter

ps just hope we can continue our experience and maybe innovative designs.

 

[walter]

It may look that Norway(replacement for Ula)and Poland will climb aboard,for the new subs.

Norway and Poland to Enter in Submarine Cooperation
Norway and Poland to Enter in Submarine Cooperation - The Nordic Page - Economy

Poland may buy submarines with other NATO members -minister
"We are considering obtaining submarines, for instance together with Norway or the Netherlands,"
Poland may buy submarines with other NATO members -minister | Reuters

So let's see what comes of that.

And something new for the OPV's,"Hull Vane",wich seems to be cutting fuel costs and improves stabilty/

Hull Vane

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Hull Vane saves 12.5% on Holland Class OPVs

August 19, 2015 | Hull Vane

What would retrofitting a Hull Vane to the 108-meter Holland Class OPVs of the Royal Netherlands Navy do?

Offshore_Patrol_Vessel_3750_Holland

Copyright Damen Shipyards

This was the question asked by the DMO (Defence Materiel Organisation) of the Royal Netherlands Navy. A CFD study was done to find the answer. Based on the operational speed profile and the power curve of the ship, it was determined that the most fuel is consumed per year at speeds between 15 and 20 knots, in spite of the fact that the ship sails 86% of the time at speeds below 15 knots. The Hull Vane was therefore optimized for a speed of 17.5 knots. As the vessel has a pronounced trim wedge – incompatible with a Hull Vane – the trim wedge was partially modified to the limits set by the DMO. Subsequently, CFD runs were done to determine the resistance at 5 knots, 12.5 knots, 17.5 knots and 22.5 knots, showing resistance reductions of 1.3%, 13.7%, 15.3% and 11.1% respectively. Multiplied by the operational speed profile, this results in an annual saving on fuel and emissions of 12.5%. The amount of CO2 emissions avoided will exceed 1.000 tons per ship per year, making the Hull Vane an extremely cost-effective CO2 abatement measure, as the investment will be paid back many times over during the lifetime of the ship.

stern equipped with Hull Vane

For the influence on the operability of the vessel, a seakeeping analysis was done in a typical wave condition. This showed a reduction of the pitching movements of 7% and a reduction of the vertical accelerations on the helicopter deck of 13%. As the vertical accelerations are the limiting factor for heli-operations, this will enlarge the operational envelope of the vessel.

The turbulent wake zone behind the stern was reduced by about 50%, making the launching and recovery of the RHIB through the stern slipway safer and easier. Finally, the range of the vessel will be increased by 17% from 5.000 to 5.850 nautical miles.

As the savings are greater and the costs lower in the case of a newbuilding, the DMO has indicated that they will also consider the Hull Vane for their future newbuilds.

The paper written about this study can be downloaded here, and will be presented at the FAST 2015 Conference in Washington DC, from 1 to 4 September 2015.




Hullvane on OPV2 small

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© Hull Vane | 2015


ps:"if possible they have to make it auto adjusteble/moveble like say on a racecar and then maybe useble at any speed(don't know,just a thought")not mine btw,comment on dutch def forum(good thinking)

 

[KiwiRob]

I can understand Norway and The Netherlands looking at a joint submarine development but Poland, why would a country with only the Baltic Sea require a blue water submarine?

 

[ngatimozart]

I can understand Norway and The Netherlands looking at a joint submarine development but Poland, why would a country with only the Baltic Sea require a blue water submarine?

Probably cheaper and easier for them than trying to develop a coastal submarine. Also training and exercise wise they will have greater interoperability with the NATO sub fleets.

 

[KiwiRob]

Probably cheaper and easier for them than trying to develop a coastal submarine. Also training and exercise wise they will have greater interoperability with the NATO sub fleets.

Then wouldn't it make more sense to buy a Swedish or German sub which has been developed for Baltic ops rather than a much larger blue water submarine better suited to Norway and the Netherlands?

 

[walter]

Then wouldn't it make more sense to buy a Swedish or German sub which has been developed for Baltic ops rather than a much larger blue water submarine better suited to Norway and the Netherlands?

Well Rob all i can find for the reason is this(came out of the article)

Poland may join forces with other NATO members such as Norway or the Netherlands to buy submarines in a bid to cut costs, instead of buying them alone,

 

[John Fedup]

Well Rob all i can find for the reason is this(came out of the article)

Poland may join forces with other NATO members such as Norway or the Netherlands to buy submarines in a bid to cut costs, instead of buying them alone,

If Poland thinks a blue water sub is required then perhaps they should latch on to whatever Australia decides on.

 

[walter]

If Poland thinks a blue water sub is required then perhaps they should latch on to whatever Australia decides on.

John,don't think that Poland goes for the replacement for the Collins;why?

As said before(also in article)Poland wants to reduce the price,therefore try and get something from the cooperation from Norway,Netherlands and offcourse Poland,it's to be seen offcourse whether that produces something(different needs,tonnage,etc)

And let's say Collins ll wil be bigger,me thinks as what Norway and the Netherlands want/need(replacement will also be a blue water sub,just like they've got now)and therefore will cost a bit more,me thinks(Collinsll)

 

[John Fedup]

John,don't think that Poland goes for the replacement for the Collins;why?

As said before(also in article)Poland wants to reduce the price,therefore try and get something from the cooperation from Norway,Netherlands and offcourse Poland,it's to be seen offcourse whether that produces something(different needs,tonnage,etc)

And let's say Collins ll wil be bigger,me thinks as what Norway and the Netherlands want/need(replacement will also be a blue water sub,just like they've got now)and therefore will cost a bit more,me thinks(Collinsll)

As Poland is next door to the world's premier sub exporter I think we can agree where the Poles are most likely to contract with.

 

[walter]

As Poland is next door to the world's premier sub exporter I think we can agree where the Poles are most likely to contract with.

Could be true,but they(Poland)first want to try this option(cooperation)we'll see what happens.