John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Fair point wrt hot zone but if the PRC moves against Taiwan in the next 2-3 years, who knows what kind of $hit Putin stirs up amongst the only other potential supplier region.
Royal Canadian Navy Discussions and updates
- Thread starter stephen weist
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An Oberon had a range of over 10,000 nm and could remain submerged for up to 90 days……
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Apparently a range advantage for Oberon but the ninety days submerged is with snorkeling I assume. The 3 week time for KSS III is using AIP/Li ion battery storage only. It has a snorkel also, I would think?
That quoted range of 7000 nm is only what the RCN published as the minimum in the RFI. The range of a KSS-111 batch 1 is said to be 10,000 nm. Batch 2 is said to be more, but finding published specs for the Batch 2 range is difficult. I've seen speculation on other forums that 12-15K is likely. That seems reasonable, given the Batch 2 is 20 feet longer and several hundred tons heavier than the Batch 1.
Canadian Patrol Submarine Project: KSS-3?
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Dosan Ahn Changho class KSS-III Submarine Korean Navy ROKN
dosan ahn changho class submarine kss-iii korean navy rokn roks 533mm torpedo harpoon ssm chonryong slcm hyunmoo slbm cruise ballistic missile
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CorvetteCrunch
Member
I don't think it is especially productive to compare marketing/classified range/speed figures that aren't even at a relevant baseline for comparison in the first place. The Oberon's were great boats for the time however, it is rather silly to put them in the same category as a large, cutting edge AIP/Li conventional boat.
As for the addition of VLS, I don't think SLBM's are an especially vital procurement for Canada, but the VLS opens up a lot of potential options. You are able to keep your torpedo magazine largely free from cruise and anti-ship missiles if you can offload them into the VLS, giving you more room for torpedoes or other systems launched from the primary tubes. It seems that only the SLBM is integrated by the Koreans into the VLS right now, however those cells are by their nature very large and can accommodate likely whatever we want, domestic Korean or international weapon systems.
The ability for Canadian submarines to operate internationally or domestically with the option to launch a variety of strike systems very much complicates the equation for our enemies and gives the Canadian govt countless additional options. A hypothetical Canadian submarine stationed out in the Baltic would potentially be able to provide the Army contingent in Latvia with heavy fire support at relatively short notice.
As for the addition of VLS, I don't think SLBM's are an especially vital procurement for Canada, but the VLS opens up a lot of potential options. You are able to keep your torpedo magazine largely free from cruise and anti-ship missiles if you can offload them into the VLS, giving you more room for torpedoes or other systems launched from the primary tubes. It seems that only the SLBM is integrated by the Koreans into the VLS right now, however those cells are by their nature very large and can accommodate likely whatever we want, domestic Korean or international weapon systems.
The ability for Canadian submarines to operate internationally or domestically with the option to launch a variety of strike systems very much complicates the equation for our enemies and gives the Canadian govt countless additional options. A hypothetical Canadian submarine stationed out in the Baltic would potentially be able to provide the Army contingent in Latvia with heavy fire support at relatively short notice.
Some additional information on a pitch by South Korea for subs and various bit of army kit:That quoted range of 7000 nm is only what the RCN published as the minimum in the RFI. The range of a KSS-111 batch 1 is said to be 10,000 nm. Batch 2 is said to be more, but finding published specs for the Batch 2 range is difficult. I've seen speculation on other forums that 12-15K is likely. That seems reasonable, given the Batch 2 is 20 feet longer and several hundred tons heavier than the Batch 1.
Canadian Patrol Submarine Project: KSS-3?
A professional level blog on strategic matters, especially submarines (nuclear and conventional) in English, Hindi & most other major languages.Dosan Ahn Changho class KSS-III Submarine Korean Navy ROKN
dosan ahn changho class submarine kss-iii korean navy rokn roks 533mm torpedo harpoon ssm chonryong slcm hyunmoo slbm cruise ballistic missilewww.seaforces.org
The quoted figure of $20-24 Billion for the subs is the first time I've seen any sort of cost mentioned for the sub program. No idea if this is for the entire program, and if so, how many subs it covers. It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out. The RCN may make a decision this year, at which point we should have a pretty good idea of the breadth of this program.
Additional detail on the Korean sub bid:
Underway
Active Member
That is the amount of money that will be re-invested back into Canada for the maintenance and sustainment system. Its a $60 billion program. Foreign build. So getting 1/3 back into Canada is not to bad really.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Not much worse than the F-35 assuming it is 88 jets. WRT subs, no other alternative than foreign build.
In a worst case scenario and Canada goes with the Korean build the potential for supply and build disruptions in the future are high.
One must realize that when Taiwan is taken, is South Korea next on the list? If China supports North Korea and war breaks out, the chances of getting our subs drops dramatically. Possibly we could get 1 sub, but then what? Are European yards also at risk of disruptions in the future?
What are the costs of not getting anything at all?
Looking at a worst case scenario, whatever sub is chosen, would it be prudent for Canada to set up its own production line in Canada while the first batch is being built overseas.
How many years would it take to fast track a licenced build and bring Canadian workers up to speed? Can we create the high strength steel needed for submarines?
Adding many new high tech jobs across the country, would go along way for our economy.
Predicting the future is most uncertain at best but it's good to look at a worst case scenario and plan accordingly.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Agree, there is risk in a SK acquisition if $hit hits the fan in Asia which would also be the case for a Euro build. How a Taiwan invasion pans out won’t be good but any move against SKorea or Japan will see a nuclear WW3 and everything will go to hell.
An eventual licensed build in Canada would be a long term goal, especially for a nuclear option should SKorea decide to develop this option and Canada should consider co-development. The other post 2050 option is getting in on AUKUS.
An eventual licensed build in Canada would be a long term goal, especially for a nuclear option should SKorea decide to develop this option and Canada should consider co-development. The other post 2050 option is getting in on AUKUS.