The brilliance of Canadian defence procurement continues to shine on....4 years after selecting the Berlin design we still have no idea how much it will cost as we start cutting steel next month for delivery in 2023. Good luck with that.
The new estimate for the JSS project is now 3.4 billion of which 60% is for the actual ship building cost. That's one billion per ship. Tell me again why these non-combatant ships should be built in Canada when we could have done what the RN did?
The new estimate for the JSS project is now 3.4 billion of which 60% is for the actual ship building cost. That's one billion per ship. Tell me again why these non-combatant ships should be built in Canada when we could have done what the RN did?
The usual story. You either save time and money, or you save political points. The UK did get SK to build the Tide class ships, but there was some noise about why they couldn't be built in the UK. I know it was an issue of capacity, but reality is you can't win either way.
Though it looks like Canada is trying to raise the bar for both losing political points, and raising the cost of military hardware.
The new estimate for the JSS project is now 3.4 billion of which 60% is for the actual ship building cost. That's one billion per ship. Tell me again why these non-combatant ships should be built in Canada when we could have done what the RN did?
Not only that, in 5 years we will have to decide to continue leasing or give it up (I doubt we will purchase it...) Canada could still choose to go through with the conversion of the second ship to be commissioned as MV Obelix, but I doubt that will happen after the current administration had to have its arm twisted to go through with the Asterix. From the way things are going I don't think a single Protecteur JSS will arrive within 5 years but I hope I am wrong and they get successfully completed on the current timetable of 2022-2023.
I wouldn’t be so sure about a purchase of Asterix not happening. Firstly, the arrival of a JSS from SeaSpan by 2023 is overly optimistic and secondly, having one AOR until 2026 means begging allies as we currently are doing. At the very least the lease will be extended but buying may make more sense. Having 3 AORs offers backup.
Ah but you see that makes sense and therefore it won't happen... All kidding aside I hope we do buy it and I hope it remains to stay as our third AOR it would be beneficial for the whole of Canada and everyone in the RCN.
I wouldn’t be so sure about a purchase of Asterix not happening. Firstly, the arrival of a JSS from SeaSpan by 2023 is overly optimistic and secondly, having one AOR until 2026 means begging allies as we currently are doing. At the very least the lease will be extended but buying may make more sense. Having 3 AORs offers backup.
Yes, it seems to be proceeding. BTW, no tender is out for the fighter replacement yet. Another round of information collecting took place earlier. The actual tender date is unknown but probably next year and certainly no decision will be made until after the next election (OCT 2019).
Yes, it seems to be proceeding. BTW, no tender is out for the fighter replacement yet. Another round of information collecting took place earlier. The actual tender date is unknown but probably next year and certainly no decision will be made until after the next election (OCT 2019).
Ah my bad, was thinking it was a tender process, still surprized its might be happening.
my god junior is really throwing the baby out with the bath water in relation to taxpayer waste of funds, and I thought the Rudd/Gillard/ Rudd years were bad.
@Novoscotiaboy, with reference to your post in the now closed CSC thread, I agree a two tier frigate fleet makes some sense but two different designs for 6 and 10-12 ships perhaps not. Why not just build some less capable T26s? I still think 15 high end frigates is not an unrealistic number given the heighten tensions and increasing proliferation of SSKs. Also the Arctic is going to eventually require something with a bigger punch than AOPS once the ice recedes. Three oceans with only 10 ships likely available at any given time is hardly excessive. Build 6 low end frigates for piracy and drug patrols.
@Novoscotiaboy, with reference to your post in the now closed CSC thread, I agree a two tier frigate fleet makes some sense but two different designs for 6 and 10-12 ships perhaps not. Why not just build some less capable T26s? I still think 15 high end frigates is not an unrealistic number given the heighten tensions and increasing proliferation of SSKs. Also the Arctic is going to eventually require something with a bigger punch than AOPS once the ice recedes. Three oceans with only 10 ships likely available at any given time is hardly excessive. Build 6 low end frigates for piracy and drug patrols.
John if only more of the citizenry of this country would speak of the need for an effective military. Living in NS we see the military daily. We know its value.
I personally think T26 is too big as a GP platform. Iver Huitfeld is too big as well but it is proven and has room for growth if needed. FFBNW could allow a Stanflex style module system that makes a lot of sense to me. The need for ssm or strike length Mk 41 is limited when doing presence patrols or counter piracy and counter narcotics. Self protection and NGS as well as flex deck and helo capabilities is whats needed in those scenarios. The bigger platform does provide better sea keeping but is that size really needed.
Whatever happens now we will have 15 of something. At this point I am hopeful for a T26 buy.
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The tribals will have to be replaced in the near future, anyone have any thoughts on possible replacements. I think the replacements should be slightly larger to accomodate the CnC task and also for future upgrades. I think the anti air/missile capability should be enhanced as the city class frigates could handle the ASW component of any taskforce. Would six be enough, this would leave on avail on each coast at all times.
Hi Stephen!
Now that the Canadian government has entered the decision phase for bids for the right to build 15 Canadian Surface Combatant (CSC) ships, it is time to give an opinion as to which of the three bids entered will be the best fit for Canada’s future naval fleet.
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John if only more of the citizenry of this country would speak of the need for an effective military. Living in NS we see the military daily. We know its value.
I personally think T26 is too big as a GP platform. Iver Huitfeld is too big as well but it is proven and has room for growth if needed. FFBNW could allow a Stanflex style module system that makes a lot of sense to me. The need for ssm or strike length Mk 41 is limited when doing presence patrols or counter piracy and counter narcotics. Self protection and NGS as well as flex deck and helo capabilities is whats needed in those scenarios. The bigger platform does provide better sea keeping but is that size really needed.
Whatever happens now we will have 15 of something. At this point I am hopeful for a T26 buy.
Agree about the citizenry of this country but they are too busy whining about new social handouts and have no clue how defence will preserve the ability to maintain those handouts. Again, I still think a reduced capability T26 as a low end frigate makes more sense than a second designed hull. An added advantage is an adversary won't be sure which version they are confronting and there is the option of upgrading to a full T26 should that become necessary. I also think the T26 is probably the lead candidate.
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Where are you getting this information that the CSC competition is in the "decision" phase? Are you suggesting that the "cure" phase is over? Were there any bidders with "mandatory" requirements issues and are therefore out of the competition?
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