Royal Canadian Navy Discussions and updates

H

hauritz

Well-Known Member
The cynic in me wonders if Trudeau’s sudden interest in SSNs might just be a tactic for delaying replacement of the current subs until the 2040s or beyond.

It could be an excuse to carry out life extension on its current subs and push back on making any actual decision on their replacement for another decade or so.
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
hauritz said:
The cynic in me wonders if Trudeau’s sudden interest in SSNs might just be a tactic for delaying replacement of the current subs until the 2040s or beyond.

It could be an excuse to carry out life extension on its current subs and push back on making any actual decision on their replacement for another decade or so.
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Possibly but he (hopefully) will be gone in 2026 so it won't be his decision. Even if a future government opted for SSKs, I doubt delivery would be before the 2040s.
 
S

Sender

Active Member
hauritz said:
The cynic in me wonders if Trudeau’s sudden interest in SSNs might just be a tactic for delaying replacement of the current subs until the 2040s or beyond.

It could be an excuse to carry out life extension on its current subs and push back on making any actual decision on their replacement for another decade or so.
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There is a life extension project already - the Victoria Class Modernization Project (VCM), with first upgraded sub completed in 2026 (Victoria-class submarines - Canada.ca click on the Implementation tab).

The Canadian Patrol Submarine Program (CPSP) is a real thing, the program office stood up in 2021, and has been in direct contact with a multitude of countries and companies to determine which sub fits the mission profile best, and who has near-term availability. (Canada in talks with six countries over future submarine needs | Shephard)

The life extended Victorias will start to age out in 2036. That is the date the program office has been given to have first of class of the new subs in RCN hands. The government has stated publicly that this is one of the unfunded projects that, when approved, will push the Defence budget closer to the 2%. The "official" public budget for subs is $60Bil for 12 hulls, and another $120Bil life cycle costs, for a total through-life project budget of $180Bil. That, however, was for conventional subs. It's pretty widely known that nuclear subs are aspirational, and that SSKs would be needed to bridge the gap, but this latest with the French might change that equation, as some pundits have suggested France might be open to delivering early from the existing French navy program. Total speculation, but that could get us us a nuc earlier than 2036 if France diverts one of their Suffren class to Canada. I'm dubious. Either way, this is a real program now, and love em or hate em, the current government has come through on a number of large procurement projects, and with subs now officially part of the defence update, it looks pretty good for this procurement. However, if they want to get boats by the mid 2030s, they will need to get moving and sign some contracts soon.
 
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S

Sender

Active Member
The problem with the French subs, IMHO, is the French systems. That's not a knock on their capabilities - by all accounts they are world class. But for the RCN, for interoperability and LCM, American systems are best. We could attempt to modify these boats to take American systems, but then you go from MOTS to customized, which dramatically increases risk, and, as shown by the challenges with Attack, don't always go well.
 
spoz

spoz

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Sender said:
The problem with the French subs, IMHO, is the French systems. That's not a knock on their capabilities - by all accounts they are world class. But for the RCN, for interoperability and LCM, American systems are best. We could attempt to modify these boats to take American systems, but then you go from MOTS to customized, which dramatically increases risk, and, as shown by the challenges with Attack, don't always go well.
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Which is where Australia ran in to problems with the design.
 
S

Sender

Active Member
Latest AUV from Cellula Robotics, out in BC. 5000 km range at 3 knots, with a sprint speed of 8 knots. Hydrogen fuel cell and Li-On batteries. Th RCN already uses the "LR" version (operated by DRDC). Wonder if this is under consideration? Might be a good under-ice option.

Solus-XR — Cellula Robotics

www.cellula.com www.cellula.com
 
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S

Sender

Active Member
Sender said:
Engines have been selected for the new Polar Class heavy icebreakers:

www.wartsila.com

Fuel efficiency of Wärtsilä 31 engine a key consideration for newbuild Canadian Polar Icebreaker

www.wartsila.com
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47MW of installed power according to the press release, with 4 x 16 cyl, and 2 x 8 cyl.

A bit of a deep dive into the Wartsila website indicates the 16 cyl engines generate 10.4 MW (13, 866 HP) each, and the 8 cyl engines 4.2 MW (5600 HP) each. Presumably the two 8 cyl engines are for hotel power, leaving 55,464 HP for propulsion. This will be quite the beast. Note the math does not quite add up. The press release indicates 47MW total, but the specs on the website add up to 50MW. Not sure why the discrepancy, but still, a lot of power here.
 
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John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Sender said:
47MW of installed power according to the press release, with 4 x 16 cyl, and 2 x 8 cyl.

A bit of a deep dive into the Wartsila website indicates the 16 cyl engines generate 10.4 MW (13, 866 HP) each, and the 8 cyl engines 4.2 MW (5600 HP) each. Presumably the two 8 cyl engines are for hotel power, leaving 55,464 HP for propulsion. This will be quite the beast. Note the math does not quite add up. The press release indicates 47MW total, but the specs on the website add up to 50MW. Not sure why the discrepancy, but still, a lot of power here.
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Power specifications in vendor brochures and websites are always under perfect conditions....not as bad as battery ranges for EVs though.;)
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
The article mentions upgrades for SM-2 and SM-6 for allies including Canada with testing for the upgraded SM-2 later this year. No mention of CSC or which type the RCN wants though.
 
S

Sender

Active Member
John Fedup said:
The article mentions upgrades for SM-2 and SM-6 for allies including Canada with testing for the upgraded SM-2 later this year. No mention of CSC or which type the RCN wants though.
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True, but no current RCN ship is equipped to fire SM-2s, so it has to be CSC.
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Sender said:
True, but no current RCN ship is equipped to fire SM-2s, so it has to be CSC.
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Agree, but SM-6 may also be in the cards. More interesting is the SM-3 which would enable Canada to support some BMD of North America in conjunction with the US.
 
S

Sender

Active Member
Excellent article on the integration of Aegis into the CSC (starts on page 13 of the link below). Page 16 has a table (shown below) of all the systems to be integrated into the class (at least, the Flight 1 ships).


Table courtesy Canadian Maritime Engineering Journal

1715450861567.png

Note "CMS330" has now morphed into the Canadian Tactical Interface (CTI).

This is a really good article, and gives an excellent update on the eventual capabilities of the CSC. Looks to be highly capable. The only weakness I see is the lack of additional VLS, but that is apparently going to be rectified in the Flight II ships. I like that the 30mm guns will be from the Lionfish family, so good defense against everything from surface targets to airborne drones.

 
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John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
S

Sender

Active Member
John Fedup said:
An update on Canada’s replacement for the Kingston class OSPV.

www.navaltoday.com

Serco gets to work on Canadian Navy's next-gen offshore patrol vessel

Vard Marine, a Fincantieri company, has named Serco as a preferred supplier to Team Vigilance for the Canadian Navy's next-generation offshore patrol vessel (OPV).
www.navaltoday.com www.navaltoday.com
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This design has evolved significantly. Now has a decent weapons fit (including a VLS) and sensor package. Looks like it will be more than just a replacement of the Kingston's capabilities, but a significant upgrade.

Team Vigilance | Next Generation Naval Vessel

Team Vigilance is a collaboration between Vard Marine, Ontario Shipyards, Thales Canada, SH Defence, and Fincantieri. The Vigilance Next Generation Naval Vessel was launched at CANSEC 2023. It is tailored to the future needs of the Royal Canadian Navy and aims to replace the Kingston Class...
www.teamvigilance.com www.teamvigilance.com
 
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