Royal Canadian Navy Discussions and updates

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
This Breaking Defence article is an American take on Canada’s exclusion from AUKUS. More or less correct IMO. However, I don’t sense any media hype over our exclusion. Public and pollie opposition, again minimal. As for eventual Canadian membership, doubtful, SSNs, even more doubtful.
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
Might be early days yet. AUKUS was kept under wraps for about 18 months and may well just be the beginning of a NATO style alliance. I wouldn't be surprised if Canada and a raft of other nations eventually entered into this alliance.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
This agreement is much more than a security alliance. It is also a closely held R&D technology collaboration between three nations which are like minded when it comes to defence investment. If Canada were to commit to such investments it might be the only other nation permitted to join. However, I don’t see any future Canadian political party prepared to make any commitment.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Might be early days yet. AUKUS was kept under wraps for about 18 months and may well just be the beginning of a NATO style alliance. I wouldn't be surprised if Canada and a raft of other nations eventually entered into this alliance.
Doubt it very much. The technology alone is highly restricted.
 

Git_Kraken

Active Member
This Breaking Defence article is an American take on Canada’s exclusion from AUKUS. More or less correct IMO. However, I don’t sense any media hype over our exclusion. Public and pollie opposition, again minimal. As for eventual Canadian membership, doubtful, SSNs, even more doubtful.
Outside of your little echo chamber here which is understandably biased towards defense issues, does Canada geopolitically really give a care if the US, AUS and UK get all hot and bothered by China? China isn't actually a geopolitical threat to Canada aside from how much the US cares about them. This means the real geopolitical concern for Canada is the US (not in an enemy way, in a must always pay attention to what they do way).

And before people get bent out of shape about trade, exports to China (our 2nd largest trade partner) account for ~3.9% of all Canadian exports. UK exports are the next highest at ~3.35%. Imports from China are much higher at about ~12%. There is only one geopolitical reality for Canada that matters and that's the United States reality as focused on North America (Canada to US exports ~70% of the total, Canada imports from US ~50% of total).

I don't see UK and AUS getting all upset that they weren't invited to NORAD or any of the other bilateral deals between Canada and the US.

Finally on no! We can't be involved in secret quantum computing or AI research! So what? That's a club that would be nice to let into but not really essential. Especially considering all the big breakthroughs in that research will likely come from the normal places, a company or a university research lab.

This is basically a regional defense treaty at the end of the day.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Outside of your little echo chamber here which is understandably biased towards defense issues, does Canada geopolitically really give a care if the US, AUS and UK get all hot and bothered by China? China isn't actually a geopolitical threat to Canada aside from how much the US cares about them. This means the real geopolitical concern for Canada is the US (not in an enemy way, in a must always pay attention to what they do way).

And before people get bent out of shape about trade, exports to China (our 2nd largest trade partner) account for ~3.9% of all Canadian exports. UK exports are the next highest at ~3.35%. Imports from China are much higher at about ~12%. There is only one geopolitical reality for Canada that matters and that's the United States reality as focused on North America (Canada to US exports ~70% of the total, Canada imports from US ~50% of total).

I don't see UK and AUS getting all upset that they weren't invited to NORAD or any of the other bilateral deals between Canada and the US.

Finally on no! We can't be involved in secret quantum computing or AI research! So what? That's a club that would be nice to let into but not really essential. Especially considering all the big breakthroughs in that research will likely come from the normal places, a company or a university research lab.

This is basically a regional defense treaty at the end of the day.
My opinion only, but it does seem as though your POV is missing some of the potential larger implications of issues with China and that impact on trade.

I would assume that Canada is, like most of the rest of the world, being impacted by the worldwide shortage of chips. I know the automotive industry has been impacted due to the number of chips used in different automobiles and automobile components and that demand has outstripped supply, leading to reduced numbers of new cars built. As a secondary impact of this, the used car market has both less available inventory and higher prices than in the past.

There are a number of reasons behind why there is a shortage, but Chinese actions could certainly make this shortage worse given the significant role Taiwan has in global chip production. It would be to Canada's benefit to have additional influence available to use which could help prevent exacerbating or repeating this current chip shortage. Yes, one option would be to setup domestic chip production facilities to reduce Canada's reliance on the global chip market, but that is something which would take time and investment, including sustaining those facilities even in times when they are not generating a profit.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Outside of your little echo chamber here which is understandably biased towards defense issues, does Canada geopolitically really give a care if the US, AUS and UK get all hot and bothered by China? China isn't actually a geopolitical threat to Canada aside from how much the US cares about them. This means the real geopolitical concern for Canada is the US (not in an enemy way, in a must always pay attention to what they do way).
Again, AUKUS is more than a defence pact but Canada is a member of CPTPP so China's actions affect other members wrt trade, so yes Canada must care about Pacific geopolitically.

And before people get bent out of shape about trade
, exports to China (our 2nd largest trade partner) account for ~3.9% of all Canadian exports. UK exports are the next highest at ~3.35%. Imports from China are much higher at about ~12%. There is only one geopolitical reality for Canada that matters and that's the United States reality as focused on North America (Canada to US exports ~70% of the total, Canada imports from US ~50% of total).
True enough but China's actions have the potential to impair our trade with other Asia-Pacific nations. @Todjaeger post about chips from Taiwan is just one example of a potenrtial supply chain issue due to Chinese actions.

I don't see UK and AUS getting all upset that they weren't invited to NORAD or any of the other bilateral deals between Canada and the US.
Nations have lots of deals wrt security. Canada and the UK aren't in the QUAD, Australia isn't in NATO. They don't need to be in a North American defence agreement. Perhaps Denmark should be because of Greenland.

Finally on no! We can't be involved in secret quantum computing or AI research! So what? That's a club that would be nice to let into but not really essential. Especially considering all the big breakthroughs in that research will likely come from the normal places, a company or a university research lab.
Actually Canada is already investing in quantum research. Yes universities will play a big part, e.g. Perimeter Institute at U of Waterloo. The government provides research grants to universities for this and other stuff.

This is basically a regional defense treaty at the end of the day.
It is a regional defence treaty but clearly there is more to which we really don't know about.[/QUOTE]
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group

Gents, what's this Light Frigate actually will be place ? What capabilities these will be replacing, or it's new capabilities ? Just haven't heard on the need for RCN Light Frigate before.

Just wondering whether a Canadian company will workout a design that has no interest yet from RCN.
 
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John Fedup

The Bunker Group

Gents, what's this Light Frigate actually will be place ? What capabilities these will be replacing, or it's new capabilities ? Just haven't heard on the need for RCN Light Frigate before.
It seems this company wants to make this an export product. The RCN CSC will be the main class for the RCN. The only use this vessel would have for the RCN is as a high end OPV but the cost is likely going to exclude it as a candidate.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro

Gents, what's this Light Frigate actually will be place ? What capabilities these will be replacing, or it's new capabilities ? Just haven't heard on the need for RCN Light Frigate before.

Just wondering whether a Canadian company will workout a design that has no interest yet from RCN.
It's a paper design at the moment. About 3,900 tonnes fully loaded displacement with a 57mm Bofors gun, Mk-41 strike length VLS etc.


 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member

Gents, what's this Light Frigate actually will be place ? What capabilities these will be replacing, or it's new capabilities ? Just haven't heard on the need for RCN Light Frigate before.
Wow tough market to try and break into, up against the the FDI and La Fayette from France, Sigma series from the Netherlands, Meko A200 from Germany, the Japanese trying to break in with the Mogami.
 

Git_Kraken

Active Member
Wow tough market to try and break into, up against the the FDI and La Fayette from France, Sigma series from the Netherlands, Meko A200 from Germany, the Japanese trying to break in with the Mogami.
Agreed. For design house's like this sometimes just having a warship design is just part of the portfolio. They might get some contractual design work for refits or helping another company do national procurement offsets. Or it might be the milkshake that brings in other contracts for other parts of their portfolio.

Of interest to me is their weapon descriptions. This is what happens when PR doesn't talk to the engineers...
 
Looks like Max Bernays will be getting wet next weekend. Appears it took several months longer to reach this stage compared to the first two ships. 'Laid down' to 'Launched' took ~30 months for the first two, while ~34 months for the third. I would assume a pandemic related delay. Not particularly much of a delay all things considered.

Once launched about 18 months before she goes to the West Coast. The initial trials crew will be East Coast.
 

FormerDirtDart

Well-Known Member
Looks like Max Bernays will be getting wet next weekend. Appears it took several months longer to reach this stage compared to the first two ships. 'Laid down' to 'Launched' took ~30 months for the first two, while ~34 months for the third. I would assume a pandemic related delay. Not particularly much of a delay all things considered.

As planned, Max Bernays got her knickers wet yesterday
 
These were slides taken from Seaspan Shipyards Virtual Industry Day yesterday. I can't find a link to the presentation... still looking. When I find it will I will post it. If not perfect to the rules regarding references apologies.

This is for the future CCG Diefen"breaker". That engineering arrangement is really interesting and very icebreaker. That range as well!
View attachment 48629


View attachment 48630
I wonder will Davie be building the same thing?
 
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