The RCN knew about the sub's condition, it wasn't a secret (the Aussies were offered them around the same time and they went running away as fast as possible). The RCN knows that procurement money is a different pot than repair and sustainment, and that the subs needed modified anyways for Canadian service (Mk-48 for example).The common link with the Merlin and Upholder was Chrétien, a useless POS. While he was trying to make his mind to purchase the Upholders they were being left without proper mothballing as the RN expected the deal to proceed quickly. Then the RCN failed to properly evaluate their condition (perhaps intentionally fearing an exit from the sub business). As for the Merlins, he cancelled the deal out of spite for Mulroney and we paid a huge cancellation penalty. Twenty two years later we have 6 CH-148s out of 28 orders and they still don't meet specifications. The EH101 was the only right choice and still is.
Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) News and Discussions
- Thread starter John Fedup
- Start date
More to the point - I was at the event where RADM Chris Barrie made it pretty clear as to why we wouldn't buy the Upholders as an interim (while Collins was being sorted) or as a second sub squadron (to have and to hold, to keep and to cherish after Collins was sorted, and to keep the flame alive about a 2 fleet navy, east and west coast) - and there were snr Canadian Naval staff in that room.
If you type that question into the below website. You will easily find the answer to that question and save someone else from having to do it for you...
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Defence sales/involvement between the US and Canada is a bit different than how it is for other nations AFAIK. IIRC Canadian defence purchases do not have to get approval from State and/or Congress prior to proceeding. Per 22 USC §2778(f)(3). Control of arms exports and imports, Canada can be granted an exemption to the licensing requirements with respect to defence items.
UK and Aust had their ITARs constraints elevated as well so as to bypass some of the normal hurdles - but I was of the impression that State were still the safety net.
It's been a while since my last ITARs training event.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
I would need to go through 22 USC to pick out all the bit relevant to Canada, but the gist of what I recall is that Canada was/is already pre-approved to purchase almost any kit they would want. Certain things which are blocked for sale due to US law and/or Int'l treaty (like the F-22, WMD, and certain types of missiles, etc.) are not available, but otherwise much of the US gear is no problem.
Not sure what the rules are regarding Canada disposing of US sourced kit, though I suspect that does need approvals from State.
one of the longest passenger events in my working life has to be sit in on an ITARs refreshers session. 7 hrs of numb bum
Would it be to far fetched, that one of the Canadian guys in here actually knew the answer?
So why the need for such a shit attitude? I werent impolite.
If you can't understand that this forum is for a mature debate which pre-supposes some effort and basic initiative by our members then maybe two things are apparent; first, your poor attitude is one of impoliteness and secondly, maybe your contributions belong elsewhere.
All you need is google and five seconds, why bother the Canadian members? Try to take more responsibility for finding the answers to basic questions before you start posting one liners. No big deal, it's just the expectation here.
t68
Well-Known Member
Don't think he was impolite to such a basic question. Of more importance to the budget is what percentage of the funding is allocated to each service and percentage of funding Personel and equipment serviceability, does replacement kit come out of a fixed defence budget or a supplement etc etc which with research will give you general idea how it works
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #74
If you Google enough you will find an approximation of what Canada has budgeted on defence over the last several years. The problem is you have to dig harder to find out that billions that were budgeted were in fact not spent due to deferrals, procurement foul-ups, or actual cancellations. In any event, the 1.0+ of GDP is nowhere enough to fund the huge replacement costs needed for replacing all sorts of kit needed by all the services from 2025 onwards. The amounts budgeted for earlier requirements (FWSAR, fighters, and AOPS) likely are not enough which means more needs to be allocated or the number of units will be decreased (can you guess which option the pollies will go for?).
Time to return this thread to RCAF issues.
Time to return this thread to RCAF issues.
2 within a fortnight plus a briefing document to help us remember. I hate ITAR briefs.
The last one I had involved a bloke from State who just lived and breathed it....
it was like going to an accountants xmas party....
Politeness has nothing to do with it. He was lazy and asked a basic question easily answered with the most basic level of research possible. Canadian budget papers are online for 2015 and I now know from my three seconds worth of Googling that they have been so since the 21st of April 2015 and the answer to his question is very easily found.
The point of this website, as the name (obliquely I admit...) suggests is to talk about defence matters, not answer every question for anyone who thinks so little of their own question they can't even be bothered apparently trying to find the answer themselves.
All the ideas you pose are similarly addressed in the budget papers. Now, what do we think of the allocated budget, for the RCAF, for 2015? Sufficient? Barely passable? Insufficient?
Lets have a good old chat on the topic, shall we?
That's what I am here for...
t68
Well-Known Member
Agree. On rereading my post I can see it can be misconstructed I was actually agreeing with you. I suppose that's what I get for not taking more time with my post and doing a quick reply whilst at work.
Cheers AD
Few things are as terrible as someone deeply interested and involved in a specific process briefing/training nubs.The last one I had involved a bloke from State who just lived and breathed it....
it was like going to an accountants xmas party....
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #80
CASR has an article discussing the possibility of a joint Canadian-Danish purchase of Typhoons. As usual, obsolete information concerning F-35 pricing is used to discredit this jet while no mention is made that the Typhoon only now is getting its first AESA radar. While exchange is an issue, even with the high US dollar, I have not seen any pricing for Typhoon that gets near the current 90-95m US for a F-35. No mention of stealth, sensor fusion, or its massive internal fuel load advantages. Oh...and hears the kicker....they could be assembled by Bombardier in Montreal, like that's going to decrease costs. LMFAO
Canadian Fighter Aircraft - Eurofighter Typhoon - Next Generation Fighter Capability - CASR Modest Proposal - Canadian American Strategic Review - NGFC Project - CF-18 Hornet - F-35 Affordability - Canadian Defence - NATO Cooperation - Danish Defence
Canadian Fighter Aircraft - Eurofighter Typhoon - Next Generation Fighter Capability - CASR Modest Proposal - Canadian American Strategic Review - NGFC Project - CF-18 Hornet - F-35 Affordability - Canadian Defence - NATO Cooperation - Danish Defence