I disagree with a through deck cruiser concept.
I also disagree with heavily arming the OCV's.
If we are going to get any additional aviation focused ships it should be another LHD. Preferably enlarge with a 15-20m plug (pushing it out to 35,000t in amphibious mode). Aircraft have gotten larger and heavier and will continue to do so. Helicopters are going to give way to more V-22 type aircraft for all roles. These will have large issues operating off a ship any smaller than a LHD (which has only 1 spot for a V-22). A larger LHD will be able to land at least 2 V-22 (possibly 3). 3 LHD's will give the ADF the required amphibious capability the LHD were purchased for. A 3rd LHD would also free up capability for F-35B's. The extra length would provide additional space for fuel, aircraft, an internal lift big enough for F-35B's/helos between internal decks, greater amphibious capability etc. The length would also most likely make if faster with the existing power output.
This would allow Australia to have two LHD's available pretty much all the time. One east, one west. Or one pre-positioned north. Or one available for international missions when required. One that could operate as a full carrier (with ~24 F-35bs), and two that could offer significant carrier capability. Being a LHD we already have the infrastructure and training in place.
I disagree with turning the OCV into frigates. They would carry over the 20mm gun from existing patrol craft and the 76mm guns currently in storage from the FFG's. Perhaps a single spot for a modular Phalanx or searam type defense. Certainly ideally compatibility with LCS or container modules, able to launch dismounted systems, UAV's/UUV, RHIBs etc. While most of the time they would be used for patrol/policing duties, eez patrol, refugees, they could also be used for special forces insertion/extraction.
We will never have the funds to do 20 x corvettes or 20 x frigates properly. We could have 12 very capable tier 1 surface combatants. Trying to uparm the corvettes is going to take away from Sm-6, or Tlam or SM-3, or naval based patriot BMD missiles.
If a OCV can't handle something with a 20mm and embarked air, then it should be supported by a 7000+T frigate, with powerful radars and 32-48 VLS. With naval tlam and SM-6 that could be beyond the horizon capability.
Mate, you've pretty well read my mind (for the most part) with your list!
I agree with the bulk of what you have suggested (I do have one thing out of 'left field', yes you might think I'm mad! But I'll get to that further on).
So while everyone here is throwing in their two bobs worth (20 cents for those post decimal currency members!), I thought I'd throw my 'wish list' up too, my 'new build' ships would be:
* A third LHD, agree completely (and I've been thinking of this for a while too), a lengthened and enlarged version of the two Canberra class LHD's, I'm sure Navantia has some design concepts for such a thing too, (I'll call her HMAS Australia too!), a third LHD would allow for at least one LHD available at all times, the 'enlarged' HMAS Australia should also, apart from her amphibious duties, be capable of operating F-35B's (if the Government so wishes) and also be capable of operating more than one V-22, UAV's etc, I agree 100%.
* Nine (9) Future Frigates based on an evolved AWD hull (would allow for block work to start sooner rather than later), all nine ships would have at least the same 48 Mk41 Strike Length VLS system as the AWD's, Harpoon, 5" gun, ASW tubes, CIWS, etc, the design should (hopefully can?) be modified to a two (2) hangar configuration. The ships may not necessarily operate 2 MH-60R's at the one time, but would allow for at least one MH-60R's and a UAV (possibly an MQ-8 Fire Scout), and of course and even more capable version of the radar and sensors used in the Anzac ASMD upgrade.
* Twenty (20) OPV's, as per SEA1180 (replace ACPB's, Mine Warfare and Hydrographic fleets), possibly based on the Damen OPV-2 design, 80m+, 1800-2000t, heli deck and hangar 'capable' of housing an MRH-90 sized helicopter (yes the OPV's may not regularly operate a helicopter, especially an MRH-90 sized helicopter, but be able to when necessary, though they would regularly operate an appropriate UAV or Fire Scout type). The OPV-2 design also has a very capable 'mission' bay below the heli deck, roles should include (but not restricted to), Mine Warfare, Hydrographic, etc, etc.
I strongly agree with StringrayOZ, we don't need to be turning these 'multi role' OPV's into mini Frigates, the cost of providing each of the 20 strong fleet with significant war fighting weapons abilities (and the associated cost of the necessary 'sensors' too, would be a major cost blow out and be completely unaffordable, in my opinion), armaments should consist of ACPB type Typhoon armament and also Mini Typhoon too.
* Six (6) replacement LCH, again another Damen design, probably based on either the 'Damen LST 80 or 100' design.
* Build three (3), rather than two, AOR's based on either the Spanish or South Korean ships that are currently under consideration (I have no preference) to replace Sirius and Success, I believe that 'three' ships would at least ensure that 'one' was always available, the rule of threes!
So what is my 'out of left field' suggestion?
* Six Austal type LCS ships, to me there is an obvious 'gap' in capability between the 12 proposed major fleet units at the top end and the OPV's at the bottom, six appropriately armed and configured Austal LCS ships would be a good fit in between, and (hopefully) still allow for the investment in the necessary 12 tier one combat ships and the 20 OPV's at the bottom too.
Can we 'recycle' the various sensor and weapons systems from the FFG's and Anzac's? Yes we potentially can.
If possible (and economically practical), I would recycle the 5" gun systems from the 8 Anzac's to become the main gun armament on the 9 Future Frigates (yes one more system would be needed and possibly some more in a spares pool too).
I would also want to see the recycled six (6) 76mm guns from the FFG's become the main gun armament on the 6 Austal LCS ships, also the various recycled Mk41 VLS systems from both the FFG's and Anzac's would end up in the Austal LCS ships too (If possible, get some value out of the dollars already invested).
And of course the various radar and combat systems from the Anzac ASMD upgrade would also be passed over to the 6 Austal LCS ships too.
If I was Def Min how would my 'future RAN' fleet look?
* 1 x enlarged LHD (HMAS Australia) as per StringrayOZ suggestion
* 2 x Canberra class LHD's
* 1 x Choules, possibly eventually replaced by two ships when Spain or the Netherlands look at replacing the ships that are 'cousins' of Choules and the UK Bay class
* 3 x AWD's, currently building
* 9 x Future Frigates, based on an evolved AWD hull
* 20 x OPV based on the Damen OPV2 design of around 1800-2000t
* 6 x Austal LCS, including weapons and sensors from the FFG's and Anzac's
* 6 x LCH, probably based on either the Damen 'LST 80 or 100' design
* 3 x AOR, based on either Spanish or South Korean offerings
So where would all of these ships be built?
The enlarged LHD would probably be better off being built by Navantia in Spain, the investment in the necessary infrastructure to build a ship of that size would probably blow the budget out of the water.
The Nine Future Frigates would follow the same path at the AWD’s, block work at the various existing sites around the country and consolidation at Techport, hopefully all that has been learned in the construction of the AWD’s is passed onto the construction of the nine (9) future frigates and that any ‘premium’ that is paid for ‘local’ construction is at a more than acceptable level for the taxpayer and the Defence budget to absorb.
The 20 OPV’s could possibly be a ‘split’ build between both the Techport and Williamstown locations (assuming Williamstown was still operating and viable), let’s not forget that Techport has significant scope for enlargement and can also house more than just ‘one’ shipbuilder utilising the ‘common user facility’.
The 6 replacement LCH could also be built at either Williamstown or Techport.
The six (6) Austal LCS would be constructed at Austal’s WA facility.
And I could go on, Choules replacement(s) and additional AOR too!
If all of the above was possible (it would if I was Def Min!) then, in my opinion, it would be a win, win for all involved. A win for the RAN, and a win for all shipbuilders in Oz, both steel and Aluminium construction too.
Anyway, just my opinion of course!!
Cheers,
(PS, I’ve just stuck to the surface fleet, the Collins replacement, well that’s a whole other in depth discussion too......)