Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

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StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
To me, it looked like the journo had listened and got it right....but the intro writer back in the newsroom had a look and decided "it's grey and has flat deck...so therefore, it is an aircraft carrier"
Headlines are always wrong. I thought it was a nice little piece about a defence project. Seemed open and explained a bit what they are.

I think the LHD are a very public friendly project. Seriously, every time there is any defence issue or negative press or construction issues on any other project they should just invite journos aboard.
 

t68

Well-Known Member
Well, the intro writer back at the newsroom should get the sack for being so wrong and stupid misinforming the Australian public who watches his network. No excuses either.
One also has to take into account it is often compared to HMAS Melbourne (R21) which was a aircraft carrier in the RAN. Although the official definition is a Amphibious Assult Ship the JC1 has a secondary role of aircraft carrier it is why those in the news room refer to it as a aircraft carrier.

All my co-workers refer to it as a aircraft carrier I gave up explaining the difference between the two
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
One also has to take into account it is often compared to HMAS Melbourne (R21) which was a aircraft carrier in the RAN. Although the official definition is a Amphibious Assult Ship the JC1 has a secondary role of aircraft carrier it is why those in the news room refer to it as a aircraft carrier.

All my co-workers refer to it as a aircraft carrier I gave up explaining the difference between the two
Also, one of the most defining features is that wonderful skijump, which is for launching, err, stuff. I see it as a bit of a good misconception. The public sees them as a far more capable/desirable ship, and the media compares them to the USS enterprise (in size if not in function). She of course much much larger than Melbourne, which was an aircraft carrier. I would imagine there would be much confusion if the US built an amphibious assault ship that was larger than a Nimitz.

I just think they are drop dead beautiful capital ships that will fill a very needed role in the RAN.
 

t68

Well-Known Member
Also, one of the most defining features is that wonderful skijump, which is for launching, err, stuff. I see it as a bit of a good misconception. The public sees them as a far more capable/desirable ship, and the media compares them to the USS enterprise (in size if not in function). She of course much much larger than Melbourne, which was an aircraft carrier. I would imagine there would be much confusion if the US built an amphibious assault ship that was larger than a Nimitz.

I just think they are drop dead beautiful capital ships that will fill a very needed role in the RAN.
Agree it's much needed asset for the RAN and very pleasing to the eye. but have wondered if side elevators would have worked better and leaving all that extra deck space at the stern.

Bit of a fan of the South Korean Dokdo class as well. Pity the Japanese Izumo class was not around and came with a well dock I much prefer the traditional lines of the American carriers.
 

chargerRT

New Member
how often would the elevators on an amphib be used, compared to a CV? would a fair comparison of use be between an Invincible and a Wasp?? I really have no idea...
 

Sea Toby

New Member
Agree it's much needed asset for the RAN and very pleasing to the eye. but have wondered if side elevators would have worked better and leaving all that extra deck space at the stern.

Bit of a fan of the South Korean Dokdo class as well. Pity the Japanese Izumo class was not around and came with a well dock I much prefer the traditional lines of the American carriers.
For a layman side lifts appear better providing more parking space on the flight deck. But in use the flight deck crews are always shifting aircraft around to make use of a lift which is useless with aircraft parked on them. Frankly I see no difference where the lifts are located. It doesn't take five minutes to use a cleared lift anyway.
 

ASSAIL

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
LHD's coming into Port Phillip have become old hat already!
Adelaide and Blue Marlin came through the RIP at about 0630 this am and "nothing". Not on the am news or Navy's webpage so I guess some lowly cadet journo will find a story and report on page 53 sometime tomorrow.
 

Sea Toby

New Member
LHD's coming into Port Phillip have become old hat already!
Adelaide and Blue Marlin came through the RIP at about 0630 this am and "nothing". Not on the am news or Navy's webpage so I guess some lowly cadet journo will find a story and report on page 53 sometime tomorrow.
Which goes to show how little defence issues are to civilians, the public is more concerned with Justin Beiber being deported or denied entry into their nation. The masses want more spending for highways, hospitals, schools, and penisons before another dollar is spent for more armed forces. Defence is sadly not a major issue, the masses wouldn't be bothered if the armed forces were cut in half.
 

SASWanabe

Member
for the record guys, on the link i provided before you can actually get a view of both Adelaide (+Blue Marlin) and Canberra in the same shot under the Web Dock East tab.

Canberra is a bit hard to make out tho. Cant wait to see a pic of the both of them at Garden island
 

a4skyhawk1

New Member
For a layman side lifts appear better providing more parking space on the flight deck. But in use the flight deck crews are always shifting aircraft around to make use of a lift which is useless with aircraft parked on them. Frankly I see no difference where the lifts are located. It doesn't take five minutes to use a cleared lift anyway.
It certainly doesn't take 5 minutes to clear a lift - it usually takes FAR LONGER although it does depend on little things like sea state, weather, state of the deck (number and position of A/C, equipment on the deck) and ongoing deck activity. Don't forget crew training AND fatigue - you get NO 2ND CHANCES on an operational flight deck.

There are lots of reasons side lifts are better than those situated in the middle of the deck - you can operate the lifts during flight ops - if a lift goes US (they do you know) your deck can still operate - side lifts allow for the efficient organisation of troops, equipment and material WHILST carrying out simultaneous Flight Operations. They also make for far more efficient loading/unloading direct to/from the wharf.
There are downsides too which have to be addressed - Fire Fighting airflow problems - water-tight integrity in very rough seas etc.

The stern lift baffles me though.:?2
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
The stern lift baffles me though.:?2
Makes more sense than the Invincible class, two lifts right in the middle.

The aircraft doesn't actually take off the stern lift, they move it off the lift, so effectively its unused space. The stern lift however drops aircraft ready for launch. The side lift can collected landed aircraft and move them below. Certainly won't be an issue for anything Spain or Australia launches from it.

The photos of JC1 with harriers shows how it would be used with fixed aircraft. Looks like a pretty good compromise. Its not like you would have more than about 6 fixed wing craft on deck.

However I would expect the Canberra class to see some absolutely terrible seas. It will be operating in cyclone prone regions. Edge lifts would severely limit its ability to do its job.

Google typhoon Cobra. Damaged 29 american ships, 790 sailors drowned, and 3 ships (of destroyer size) lost. They included a USS Iowa and 5 aircraft carriers badly damaged. With that in mind, the RAN would want something capable of surviving poor seas.
 

a4skyhawk1

New Member
M1A1 Landings

I have read several posts in various places concerning a "lack of ability for LCM's to transfer M1A1 Battle tanks" between ship and shore and I may have missed some but I don't see a problem as we've ordered (and some delivered?) LCM-1E's which, apparently,
have the capacity to carry;

1 x Main Battle Tank, or
1 x self-propelled howitzer plus resupply vehicle, or
2 x MOWAG Piranha, or
6 x light tactical vehicles, or
170 personnel with equipment.
I guess this is a question as non-wikipedia information is a little hard to find?
I am still struggling with the value of these ships - unless at least one of them is operated as a Carrier most of the time. Will they spend all their time alongside on a "just in case something happens" basis OR are they going to be a proper Warship with a proper NAVAL WARFARE ROLE?
I just don't get it.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I have read several posts in various places concerning a "lack of ability for LCM's to transfer M1A1 Battle tanks" between ship and shore and I may have missed some but I don't see a problem as we've ordered (and some delivered?) LCM-1E's which, apparently,
have the capacity to carry;

1 x Main Battle Tank, or
1 x self-propelled howitzer plus resupply vehicle, or
2 x MOWAG Piranha, or
6 x light tactical vehicles, or
170 personnel with equipment.
I guess this is a question as non-wikipedia information is a little hard to find?
I am still struggling with the value of these ships - unless at least one of them is operated as a Carrier most of the time. Will they spend all their time alongside on a "just in case something happens" basis OR are they going to be a proper Warship with a proper NAVAL WARFARE ROLE?
I just don't get it.
No need to shout - it's bad manners. They are first and foremost a warship of the RAN and they have a maritime warfare role. Any HADR role is secondary. Their role comes under the term of Amphibious Operations. I suggest that you read back through this thread, where you'll find ample discussion upon the subject of the RAN LHDs and their roles. One very important role that these two ships will have for Australia is maritime projection - the ability to project Australian maritime force over a larger area for a longer period of time than it has been able to do previously.
This is a good place to start: ADF Future Maritime Operating Concept - 2025‎
Then for a further understanding: Operational Maneuver From The Sea: Realizing A Concept | Marine Corps Gazette
UK Future Maritime Operational Concept‎
 

swerve

Super Moderator
...
I am still struggling with the value of these ships - unless at least one of them is operated as a Carrier most of the time. Will they spend all their time alongside on a "just in case something happens" basis OR are they going to be a proper Warship with a proper NAVAL WARFARE ROLE?
I just don't get it.
LHDs in other navies are very busy. As well as having wartime roles, they are extremely useful for the many things armed forces do short of all out war, such as disaster relief & minor military interventions.

RAN LHDs are very unlikely to spend much time alongside 'just in case': I expect them to be greatly in demand.
 
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