Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

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Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
have been reading up on some apache events, training capability etc from the brits.

why we ever got tiger is beyond me
Outstanding marketing by Eurocopter, expert lobbying by Queensland, an anti-American bent in some senior sirs and public servants, a poor understanding of the true risks, costs and developmental nature of the project by the key decision makers and the government of the days uninformed belief that it was the cheaper, less risky option.

Basically the same as the MRH-90, MU-90, Sea Sprite, ACPB, LCM2000, HMAS Sirius, initial BAE LAND 121 selection and F-100 AWD with minor changes to the players.
 

ASSAIL

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I haven't been to Williamstown for a long time but - when LHD 01 arrives, is there berthing space for both ships or will Canberra have to move? I assume the current berth will be taken by Adelaide.
 

rand0m

Member
I haven't been to Williamstown for a long time but - when LHD 01 arrives, is there berthing space for both ships or will Canberra have to move? I assume the current berth will be taken by Adelaide.
There really hasn't been a great deal of movement/change since last November, I thought I read somewhere of potential delays/issues with the sea trials...:confused:
 

knightrider4

Active Member
you could deploy chooks "as is" for short term scenarios - but the hardening up for marine ops is about sustained ops in that environment.

"one offs" are fine
I realize this is off topic but regarding SEA 1000, I remember reading sometime ago, in an edition of Navy magazine of a concept design called the Stoker and Hudspeth. Essentially this was a scaled down Virginia class hull. What I found interesting to say the least in terms of propulsion technology was the use of HTS motors and Lithium Ion batteries. Do you believe that HTS motors are technologically mature enough to be seriously considered for SEA 1000?
 

RobWilliams

Super Moderator
Staff member
Keel laid for AWD-2 (Brisbane)

Second Hobart Class destroyer "Brisbane" keel laid in Australia

“We have made significant strides over the past year on this first-of-class build, and I am proud of everyone within the AWD Alliance for their hard work to get us where we are today. We are now working hard in preparation for the launch of Hobart with as much equipment as possible being loaded out over the coming months.

“Once Hobart is floated off, Brisbane will take prominence on the hardstand of the Common User Facility where we will see the ship take shape. One of the next key milestones for Hobart will be the activation of the combat system following the successful integration testing at our land-based facilities.”

“The Hobart equipment is in-country and the load-out and installation work is underway. The core Aegis weapon system will be critical to the capability needs of Navy.”
Solid program, should produce a very capable system working in conjunction with an ARG, although IIRC weren't future growth margins an issue?
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Do you believe that HTS motors are technologically mature enough to be seriously considered for SEA 1000?
I'd be waiting for commercial shipping to pick it up as thats what will drive developments

there are some drawings coming close to realisation for small commercials, but they're probably 5 years away

the tech basically exists, its more about viability, economies of scale and defining the maint model

(but forget about it for the RAN)
 
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harryriedl

Active Member
Verified Defense Pro
have been reading up on some apache events, training capability etc from the brits.

why we ever got tiger is beyond me
what sort of stuff out of curiosity (if its not sensitive) its a good helo from all the reports and seems to benefit from the more powerful engine especially in (Afghanistan)
 

weegee

Active Member
I saw the keel being laid on another website and they had quotes from our defence minister about the apparent enquiry into the program and this quote pricked my ears wondering what this announcement could be?

Here is the quote:
“I am working on the inquiry as we stand here now, and there may be an announcement on that in the near future. But, can I take you back to the ANZAC Frigates – we produced 10 of those vessels, two of them in New Zealand, the fact was the program waxed and waned with a whole lot of influences. Principally the mining industry, the mining industry soaks up skilled workers and we take a hit. And so the pendulum vacillates over the 10 years of the cycle of this project.”

I wonder what is he talking about? or is he just going to be saying how badly the program was managed by Labor blah blah blah and now under the Libs it will be smooth sailing etc
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Very few people remember that there was a significant amount of discussion about the issues of running AWD and LHD programs concurrently back around 2005. The concern was there would be insufficient trained and experienced people to successfully conduct both without risking budget and schedule.

Long story short, the the projects should have been sequential,not concurrent. Delays in initiating projects meant there was no choice but it was far from ideal.
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Just been informed that Channel 7 is running a special on our new "aircraft carriers"..
Yes, about time we got some aircraft carriers to support all of our battleships, especially those hard working ones protecting our borders!:haha
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
what sort of stuff out of curiosity (if its not sensitive) its a good helo from all the reports and seems to benefit from the more powerful engine especially in (Afghanistan)
most of it was about survivability - and the onboard systems being absolutely trustworthy.

I gather the UK version is the superior bird - but I guess Gremlin has an insight into this.
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
most of it was about survivability - and the onboard systems being absolutely trustworthy.

I gather the UK version is the superior bird - but I guess Gremlin has an insight into this.
Makes you wonder what sort of sustainment savings could have been achieved if the attack helo (whoops I mean purely peaceful scout helo), troop lift helo, additional troop lift helo, asw helo and asvw helo (plus maybe tactical airlifter) all used the same core engine? Apache, Blackhawk, Merlin, Seahawk and CASA C235, or even just the same aircraft we bought but select the CT7 / T700 versions.
 

RobWilliams

Super Moderator
Staff member
I gather the UK version is the superior bird - but I guess Gremlin has an insight into this.
The WAH-64 (variant of the AH-64D Blk I) had superior performance in places like Afghan because of stuff like more powerful engines (difference of ~400hp all in all IIRC) meaning that it had the oomph to carry Longbow in theater, however Block III effectively negates this and gave us a problem because ours are too different* from standard for the upgrade to be easy.

We'll end up with a WAH-64E Blk III by the end of the decade if the Army fights for their corner.

That said, i'm here in my computer chair so i'd like to hear what Gremlin has to say very much

*Different comms suite, UK specific HIDAS equipment, folding rotor assembly for naval ops too.
 

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
Yup - basically for a good ten years, we could kick sand in the faces of other Apache drivers as the WAH was to a uniform standard and as stated, those engines could bring much more power in hot/high conditions. That plus the self defence suite (which I'm under the impression brought a lot of comfort to aircrew possibly facing a pile of MANPAADS in the initial part of the campaign, til it became apparent that the threat wasn't current in the main.

Unfortunately, -E will be an interesting fudge to get into service as a result.

I am however, quite glad we went the Apache route - they've defied the critics by turning in such a great performance in Afghanistan.

There's a couple of really good books out if you can get them in Australia - Ed Macey's Hellfire is a cracking read and in parts, stranger than fiction.
 

Sea Toby

New Member
To me, it looked like the journo had listened and got it right....but the intro writer back in the newsroom had a look and decided "it's grey and has flat deck...so therefore, it is an aircraft carrier"
Well, the intro writer back at the newsroom should get the sack for being so wrong and stupid misinforming the Australian public who watches his network. No excuses either.
 
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