Nonsense! You're imagining that there is a standard European submarine. No such thing. European SSKs currently in service are up to 80% of the displacement of the Collins class. SSKs now building are up to 75% of Collins size. According to you, a "Euro sub" is half that size. And that's ignoring SSNs, which one European SSK builder is currently building.
You fail to get the point. A four hour flight isn’t exactly useful if you want to drop the kids off at the Grandparents so you can go out on date night. It’s all about living in your community or at least for part of your career. It’s not nor has it ever been an issue of access for holidays. The time of flight from Perth to Sydney has not changed much in the past 50 years. The life styles of people 100 years ago is also as relevant to this discussion as recruitment practices of the Nelsonic navy.
the issue is about battery efficiency relative to displacement.
No he's not. He's referring to the non-suitability of the current European sub-designs to meet our future requirements for son of Collins, despite the enthusiasm for them in some sectors.
Neither does being based in Sydney help matters if your parents live in Melbourne or Brisbane or Perth or Hobart or Adelaide. Why is Sydney so important? Do all submarines being recruited come from Sydney? What is wrong with hiring a baby sitter?
Just when you think arguments can’t get any dumber….
He's doing so using a false argument - and one that he should know is false - referring to an imaginary "Euro sub" as if there was such a thing (in reality, as he should know, there's a wide range of European submarines, with SSKs up to twice his size & much larger SSNs) in order to give himself an invented baseline for an unfavourable comparison.
It is appropriate in the Australian context. No one in their right mind is suggesting the RAN buy Astutes, Barracudas or Russian submarines. So as has been established in the vernacular “Euro Sub” refers to the various European SSKs of similar size and performance (T214, S80, etc) that have been suggested by some commentators and commercial agents for SEA 1000. In this context it’s an acceptable and widely understand term. The same way ‘Japanese Car’ may be used in the American vernacular for a small to medium sized car despite the Toyota Crown, Magna, Lexus and other large Japanese cars.
Well actually, as AD and Abe have both suggested, I was thinking of the sub types being listed as MOTS options for the RAN, specifically Scorpene, S-80, Type 212/214, as the nuclear option has been excluded and the Type 216 is a paper design in the same mould and with the same risks as the Type 471. My sincere apologies for stating that the battery at 440t was a third the weight of one of these subs, between a fifth and a quarter would have been more accurate.
There was a video linked in this thread just a week ago with the head of the program discussing all of those points...
they don't stay the same, improvements to class always occur, its happened on subs and skimmers for all the assets we've built in the last 40 years
That would be ideal.
Apologies if I overreacted, but I've recently been getting heartily sick of the "euro crap" line I've seen in various places, in which all European products are lumped together, any deficiencies in one are assumed to be common to all of them, & a specific model is chosen & criticised, then the criticisms applied to others for which they are not valid. Your post looked remarkably like yet another example of that genre, with its lumping together of several submarines as "a Euro sub".
Now you are more or less saying the folks living in Perth don't have social interaction. I wonder what the citizens of Perth think? With your mentality, there would be no one based in Perth. At some point the citizens living in Perth will demand air force fighters and an armored division as they pay taxes too.
You still don't get the point. It's a bloody long way between Perth and and the east coast where the very large majority of the population live. You don't appreciate the immensity of the distances involved or the immensity of Australia. It is not like Pomland where if you turn around you knock somebody over and you can drive from one end to the other in less than 24 hours. So Sea Toby mate like I suggested a while back have a look at a map. Secondly, how many servicemen do you know can afford four hour airline return flights time and again? It isn't exactly cheap flying Perth - East Coast - Perth, especially if you're going to Hobart, Be bloody cheaper to fly to Auckland or Christchurch return.
I don't think anyone is suggesting removing all of the subs from WA, but if they really wanted to retain the SUB personal surely splitting the fleet between east and west would give the best of both worlds. (You would think anyway)