Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

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OpinionNoted

Banned Member
Of course there will be a grand plan of the type of navy the defence force ultimately wants I would be interested to see what that is.

me too...wonder if theres anyone in here who mabey from 2nd hand accounts has a feel for what navy brass see as an appropriate/doable navy for the here and now...not talking what is here and whats planned but what expansion the navy could realistically realize in the eyes of navy brass.
 
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icelord

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
One of our Spanish members said that Natavia wanted a 3rd LHD much more than the RAN did. I would imagine they are desperate to do a deal, spains finances are on the brink, I wouldn't be surprised if they were offering cost price, clearance sale to us.

I would imagine the RAN is trying to wrangle a third LHD. It looks like they have the money available for it, now they need to convince everyone they need a 3rd LHD instead of a measly sealift ship. The LHD haven't seemed to have copped any media flack, no media about build stuff ups (unlike the AWD), seem popular with the military, and have local build elements popular with voters and the economy.

If we were to go a 10-15,000t ship what would we get? A bay? Uk built? A Spanish build Galicia? Even with that two Bays or a LHD and a bay won't give us the amphibious capability we require (and would most likely cost the same possibly with less local build). There will be times (admittedly rarely) where we needed a 3rd LHD. 3 secures our capability. While LPD's are often available, there is only 1 other LHD of Canberra’s size and that’s in inconveniently located Spain. The UK will be short in amphibious capability for the next few decades, US will be tightening its belt and less able and likely to deploy USMC amphibs on issues that affect Australia socially or politically (not physically threaten her soverenty). Can anyone honestly tell me the US would love to step into some SEA/pacific civil unrest to stop hundreds of thousands of refugee migrants ending up in Australia? That leaves us with no backup plan, and us to clean up messes on our own doorsteps. We need that capability to act to prevent and secure our region against instability particularly contagious instability. How confident are we that Indonesia won't do a Egypt, Syria?
What it would be is that they are doing a one for one replacement, 2 LPAs and a LSD for 2 LHDs and a LPD, thinking that its worked for 15 years whats another 20...forgetting the biggest being the reason we have a gap right now is we let our amphibs skip regular dockyard and maintanence to keep them at sea as one after another they were required to sail at short notice while the others were on excercise or broken down.
So having the 3 amphibs in many peoples minds worked, where as in reality the reason for our current predicament is having the 3 never available for urgent defects. The blame they are directing is toward the ships being old, where as 3 NEW ships would never be the same...:rolleyes:
 

icelord

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
They did not miss it ! It was unfortunately a political point scoring/brownie points/photo op/deversionary (and anything else you can think of) tactic for a government that is on the brink of loosing power. Unfortunate but can't be undone now
They havent put the choules wooden name boards on it yet, or made the ball caps and patches...theres still time!
 

icelord

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Although it's not great one its not a bad one either.

Remember

It's just a name...
Its not. The reputation builds from the name, the current major fleet units crew swaps is an example of this.

Having built a name and reputation on one ship, while the other managed to make a complete arse of themselves in every port, we swapped ships and had to take on that said name and its views among the fleet.

The name and reputation are something of pride, having now served 3 ships, 2 of the 3 had a strong reputation for hard work, and can do attitude along with a good crew and high morale. coming to a ship which has a bad name lowers your expectations and for juniors, your views on coming aboard. luckily we've already started rebuilding the name a ship deserves, and god help the crew of my last ship in its next journey...
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Change in government? :D we all know its coming, and by the latest news sooner then expected
I don't mind the idea of a change in government but the thought of Abbott as PM scares me stupid. In my personal opinion bring on an election the second Abbott is replaced with someone better but not before, please, please, please not before!
 

t68

Well-Known Member
I don't mind the idea of a change in government but the thought of Abbott as PM scares me stupid. In my personal opinion bring on an election the second Abbott is replaced with someone better but not before, please, please, please not before!
replace him with who? Turnball f%$#
 

Bonza

Super Moderator
Staff member
Let's not get too into the current Australian political dilemmas shall we... we'll only end up depressing ourselves anyway. :)
 

alexsa

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
They did not miss it ! It was unfortunately a political point scoring/brownie points/photo op/deversionary (and anything else you can think of) tactic for a government that is on the brink of loosing power. Unfortunate but can't be undone now
I should have worded it better "only a politicial could miss the importance of the link". Fully aware this a a government paly to win media popularity.
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Australia's amphibious capability was sort of haphazard going back to Sydney and before. And here we are with effectively no amphibious capability at this moment. We were lucky with East Timor. Eventually we can't just keep hoping to keep being lucky.

Post cold war we need to develop our navy for these developing threats. We need a navy that is able to sustain a deployment indefinately as required.

Wikileaks revealed Rudd was keen to build up the defence forces particularly the navy. Yes, a massive earth shattering discovery from the man that called the Chinese Rat F*&kers..

I reckon we need 3 LHD (being able to sustain 2 LHD on deployment), 1 LSD, 3 AWD, 8 ANZAC II, 20 OCV, 12 subs, which is pretty much what the white paper detailed. We can afford it, we can operate it.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Australia's amphibious capability was sort of haphazard going back to Sydney and before.
you could argue that RAN was ahead of its time with the Sydney troop carrier conversion....

we got lucky with ET, a different commander on the other side could have made things very interesting very quickly....
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Australia's amphibious capability was sort of haphazard going back to Sydney and before. And here we are with effectively no amphibious capability at this moment. We were lucky with East Timor. Eventually we can't just keep hoping to keep being lucky.

Post cold war we need to develop our navy for these developing threats. We need a navy that is able to sustain a deployment indefinately as required.

Wikileaks revealed Rudd was keen to build up the defence forces particularly the navy. Yes, a massive earth shattering discovery from the man that called the Chinese Rat F*&kers..

I reckon we need 3 LHD (being able to sustain 2 LHD on deployment), 1 LSD, 3 AWD, 8 ANZAC II, 20 OCV, 12 subs, which is pretty much what the white paper detailed. We can afford it, we can operate it.
I am concerned that the current plans may not follow through, the Greens will push for defence cuts and when the Libs get in you can pretty much expect cuts more severe than we saw in 96. No one who actually cares about national security is getting or likely to get a say at the moment and the only reason Gillard hasn't canned all of Rudds plans is she doesn't want to look any weaker than she already does.
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
you could argue that RAN was ahead of its time with the Sydney troop carrier conversion....

we got lucky with ET, a different commander on the other side could have made things very interesting very quickly....
Sydney could have been so much more than she was, I did like the way she carried ASW Wessex on her Vietnam trips, she effectively provided outer area ASW cover for her escorts. Something that should be kept in mind for the LHDs.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Personally I am very disappointed with this name. Claude Choules served the RN and the RAN for a long time through both World Wars and is to be admired for that, but at the end of the day he is not a hero of the service.

I'm not a fan of using peoples name for ships as it goes against RN/RAN traditions but at least the sub names had some meaning.

I believe we should of called her HMAS Milne Bay. This name would respect that she is a "Bay" class and honored the memory of one of the most pivotal battles of the Pacific campaign.

I respect Mr Choules for his service, so much so I volunteered to serve in his honor guard at his funeral. But at the end of the day he is just a old gezzer who lived a bloody long time.

Well there's my 2 cents guys
I agree too mate. No disrespect to the old salt, but it should have been named after something of particularly important significance in RAN history, preferably associated with battle honours. I would think either named after a previous ship, such as Tobruk or as you have suggested, a battle such as Milne Bay. I do not know RAN history, not having served in that navy, but since the RAN and RNZN traditions a very similar I do understand where you are coming from.
 
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StevoJH

The Bunker Group
Jervis Bay is definately a good choice.

The AMC HMS Jervis Bay held off the Admiral Scheer long enough for her convoy to scatter and most of the ships escaped.

The first HMAS Jervis Bay served the RAN for 17 years as a training ship and troop transport.

The second HMAS Jervis Bay was an Incat Catamaran and while only in service for two years, spent most of her time running between Darwin and east Timor supporting INTERFET and then later UNTAET.
 

hairyman

Active Member
If not a 3rd LHD, why not a 2nd Bay Class or similar? Would not that ease our amphib problems in the future? Choules is still twice as big as anything it is replacing.
 
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