Succession Never Tasted So Sweet - Royal Australian Navy
The cake was very well presented and actually tasted bloody good
The cake was very well presented and actually tasted bloody good
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates
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Shouldn't the cake have been of RFA Largs Bay? Kind of getting ahead of yourselfs there...Succession Never Tasted So Sweet - Royal Australian Navy
The cake was very well presented and actually tasted bloody good
I'm not sure, it was the cake company's idea to do it not our ships or the RAN.
It was filmed for some lifestyle TV channel and great PR for Planet Cake.
They probably had two cakes made back when the LHDs were ordered and just rolled one out early.:sick
Change to AWD Construction Program
Media release from Minister of Defence listing changes to the AWD Construction Program
Australian Government, Department of Defence - Stephen Smith MP
Would be interesting to know the full reasons behind this ? Are they just concerned about the delivery time ? or the much publicised issues of quality and difficulties with the block production ? Are BAE potentially on notice and under scrutiny for the LHD Superstructure construction as well ?
Media release from Minister of Defence listing changes to the AWD Construction Program
Australian Government, Department of Defence - Stephen Smith MP
Would be interesting to know the full reasons behind this ? Are they just concerned about the delivery time ? or the much publicised issues of quality and difficulties with the block production ? Are BAE potentially on notice and under scrutiny for the LHD Superstructure construction as well ?
some companies - you can change the hat but its still the same head...
The book that explains all is due out in 2024.
Long story short, if you lay off everyone who knows what they are doing they will find new jobs and tell you to get stuffed when you come calling a year or so later. The ANZACs and NZs OPVs were built at Williamstown by technical and trades people who are no longer there, not by the management, procurement and admin people who kept their jobs.
justsomeaussie
Member
We'll go through this pain once again when SEA1000 comes up. Australian industry is just unable to say it isn't capable to perform a job. It's purely an ego and jobs thing. Industry's ego is fat enough that they say they can do everything and the pollies listen to that and think jobs >>>votes so they run with it.
Looks like Collins Mk2 will be exactly that, an absolute shit fight costing the tax payer billions.
Looks like Collins Mk2 will be exactly that, an absolute shit fight costing the tax payer billions.
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
Its more the fact that they build up a capability, then as soon as they finish with it, they throw it away. Then when they need to use it again, it has to be rebuilt from scratch.
justsomeaussie
Member
Yeah that's why it's similar to the collins build, at least with the objective of building 12 subs, by the time we finish the 12, the projection is that it will be time to build collins mk3. So we end up with a perpetual submarine building cycle.
Sounds like a good plan and since Australia has unique sub requirements perhaps it's the only plan. I still liked Kokoda concept of buying some Virginia nuc subs. It would be a very hard sell to the pollies, not so hard to the public though.
This is stated in that document:
" Up to 13 steel blocks will be reallocated among the three Australian shipyards in Adelaide, Melbourne and Newcastle – seven for advanced fit out and six for construction; and
Up to five steel blocks will be reallocated to Navantia in Ferrol, Spain. "
I will ask the people in charge of bulding the F-100s about this, but can someone tell me if that document is autenthic? If it is, then certainlly somebody lied about their capabilities to build these ships...
Stated above it is that in some way Australia lost the people capable to do the job, why such mistake was not taken in count by the RAN?
Manoora is now decommissioned.
We practiced hard all week and today's ceremony was well worth all the effort that we had put it.
Pictures at Main Page - Royal Australian Navy
We practiced hard all week and today's ceremony was well worth all the effort that we had put it.
Pictures at Main Page - Royal Australian Navy
It is authentic.
BAE, previously Tenix and prior to that Transfield, at Williamstown, have the necessary equipment to do the work (and have done this type of work there for decades). Unfortunately they do not have the people as the majority of competent people were made redundant prior to the award of the block contracts.
There is an annoyingly persistant attitude / culture within Australian Industry and Government that attempts to treat every major project as a once off turn key infrastructure proposition. You build a facility on a green field site, you recruit and train the people you need, you do the work and hand it over to the customer, then you sack your work force and sell the site before moving onto the next job. If they could get away with it they would form shell company to run the project so they could wind it up at the end of the project as well and get away scott free.
There has historically been little if any interest in building and maintaining capability in Australia and things are probably worse now than ever as the show is being run by Baby Boomers. Not all of them are bad but there are way to many of the selfish live for the moment type in positions of authority who are incapable of looking past a year of two let alone a decade or decades. They only care about achieving their specific KPIs, looking good and moving on before everything goes to crap for the poor sod whose been left to try and prevent the impending fall.
Well the build process for the new subs could go to potentially 2040 at the max, however this is to be expected and I heard they were not due to leave service till 2070. As for the nuke subs I think it would be harder to sell to the public actually, the government would want the best subs we could get (providing we build them) and with all those anti-nuke groups selling it to the public could be a challenge.
One thing however I disagree with in the Kokoda concept is that if we had to pick a nuke sub, we should go with the Astute class instead of Virginia. It is cheaper, carries less people, has more torpedoes, faster and can go deeper than the Virginia.
justsomeaussie
Member
I disagree. I think the public's knowledge and role in defence's procurement is largely misunderstood. Prior to Japan's nuclear accident, there was quite good support for nuclear industry in Australia. It was growing a lot of support due to being the only alternative to coal and oil burning.
The fringe groups that protest at lucas heights are the same ones who illogically ask for x rays at hospitals. They will forever be illogical.
Do the public know or care we have Abrams or c17s? No. If the public were told this is what we are getting, it makes us better because of x and y and is cheaper because of z then I'm confident people would go along with it. Why? Because they have no other option too.*
I think Kokoda logic to buy US subs was more along the line of maintenance and support. Aus nuc subs can operate mostly in the Indian/pacific never needing to head back to the UK for nuclear maintenance and I think the idea of australian/us naval base on Australian soil was appealing.
The problems:
The least: Irrational fears of nuclear power after Japan
The most: Getting the US to share its nuclear technology
The fringe groups that protest at lucas heights are the same ones who illogically ask for x rays at hospitals. They will forever be illogical.
Do the public know or care we have Abrams or c17s? No. If the public were told this is what we are getting, it makes us better because of x and y and is cheaper because of z then I'm confident people would go along with it. Why? Because they have no other option too.*
I think Kokoda logic to buy US subs was more along the line of maintenance and support. Aus nuc subs can operate mostly in the Indian/pacific never needing to head back to the UK for nuclear maintenance and I think the idea of australian/us naval base on Australian soil was appealing.
The problems:
The least: Irrational fears of nuclear power after Japan
The most: Getting the US to share its nuclear technology
meatshield
Active Member
The RAN wouldn't know what to do with itself if they had boats that worked!
Quite agree............ too little work which is sparodic in nature and too many groups bidding for it, added to which, in the current evironment, there is a high demand for skilled tradesmen.
Yard rationalisation really is the only option.
Ozymandias
Banned Member
Cameron Stewart of the Australian does really annoying Australian defence reporting.
Here he blames Tenix/BAE for the AWD delays:
$8bn navy flagship founders after construction bungle | The Australian
And then here he blames the Gillard government
Labor warned of air warfare destroyer delays and blowouts | The Australian
Basically the same story, but assigns blame to who he feels like taking on that morning. The bias in the Murdoch media is appalling, when it is so patently obvious that they calbrate their stories to a political agenda.
Here he blames Tenix/BAE for the AWD delays:
$8bn navy flagship founders after construction bungle | The Australian
And then here he blames the Gillard government
Labor warned of air warfare destroyer delays and blowouts | The Australian
Basically the same story, but assigns blame to who he feels like taking on that morning. The bias in the Murdoch media is appalling, when it is so patently obvious that they calbrate their stories to a political agenda.
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
Really? My understanding is that the Collins class submarines work extremely well.
I see no problem with that, BAe messed up. They built one of the blocks wrong and have now been shown to lack the capability (manpower) to carry out their assigned portion of the build, with work moved to Forgacs and other participants.Ozymandias said:
Would have thought this a failing of whoever had oversight at the Defense Department rather then the government itself, unless the person/people with oversight reported it to Smith and he ignored it.Ozymandias said:
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