Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

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alexsa

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
To increase the reserve battle stability of the design. Once part of the weather deck goes under, your water plane area goes south as well and you are in trouble, big trouble.

"
Agree there would be a large benifit from that perspective as deck edge immersion is the start of diminsihing transverse stability. I alos wonder if plating it in may also have a moderate benefit from the RCS perspective as the Ax openings, and associated internal equipment, would be quite a radar reflector.
 

Bonza

Super Moderator
Staff member
Anybody know when the Army discussions board is going to be re-opened?
Which thread are you talking about mate? It's not my area but I can ask the other mods about the relevant thread. I assumed you meant the Australian Army thread but that isn't locked, as far as I can see.
 

ThePuss

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Bins will probably go onto the waists like on FFG's I guess.
Smokers, who cares ;) GDP is the only splace left for them.
How many ships have a life buoy sentry closed up during normal steaming, on Toowoo we don't.
Have they changed the messing for the PO's and Chief's on there yet?
Cheers
I'm not on Perth mate. However if your still on the Pink Pony in the new year we will be meeting :wave.

As to the senior sailors messing together, it has not happen yet on the Perth (I have a mate on there) but it is definitely happen across the ANZAC fleet. Apparently the whole reason it is happening (Forcibly) is because they want to turn the Chiefs mess into a whole ship briefing room/training room with the pesky old seniors only allowed in at meal time. The old and bold are non to happy about this as they argue that the Chief mess, when it is turned into a SS dinning room should be exclusive to SS only due to the PO's mess losing all the tables and LAN points, so all of the PO's and some of the Chiefs will have nowhere to work on computers from. Mind you if they win that battle there would be no reason for the amalgamation to happen...and that would suit the PO's and Chiefs just fine. Small ships have combined mess through necessity, Majors traditionally (With a few exceptions) don't.

Whilst we on this point the LHD's unfortunately has a combined mess due to the fact we bought the design "As is":hitwall.
 
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Pusser01

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I'm not on Perth mate. However if your still on the Pink Pony in the new year we will be meeting :wave.

As to the senior sailors messing together, it has not happen yet on the Perth (I have a mate on there) but it is definitely happen across the ANZAC fleet. Apparently the whole reason it is happening (Forcibly) is because they want to turn the Chiefs mess into a whole ship briefing room/training room with the pesky old seniors only allowed in at meal time. The old and bold are non to happy about this as they argue that the Chief mess, when it is turned into a SS dinning room should be exclusive to SS only due to the PO's mess losing all the tables and LAN points, so all of the PO's and some of the Chiefs will have nowhere to work on computers from. Mind you if they win that battle there would be no reason for the amalgamation to happen...and that would suit the PO's and Chiefs just fine. Small ships have combined mess through necessity, Majors traditionally (With a few exceptions) don't.

Whilst we on this point the LHD's unfortunately has a combined mess due to the fact we bought the design "As is":hitwall.
PInk Pony! the mighty Purple Pony thankyou :rotfl
Was just curious about the Senior's messing as there had been talk about instigating it during our IMAV though that has now been post-poned until later next year.
I will be posting to Stirling in the New Year but might catch you on there before I go.
Cheers
 

Abraham Gubler

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
You realise that the two compartments you are talking about relocating are the Air Weapons Magazine and the Helo Firefighting Room? Neither of which can be re-located and both of which are critical.
OK I’ve never gone aft of the waist on an Anzac class and just had a look at the damage control plan before posting about the possibility of reshaping the hangar area. I didn’t see any red bordered spaces so didn’t think there was a magazine there.

Also you'd be messing with the structural integrity of the mezanine level, which houses an assortment of compartments that you would not find any space for elsewhere.

Simply put, it's not posssible to widen the hangar.
I still think it’s possible to provide some additional width in order to provide space for maintenance activity. You can always widen the hangar to the starboard if you can’t move port and pillars can be retained for structural integrity. The extra width is just for access to not for moving the helo. Another option would be to conduct all maintenance on the flight deck under an extendable tent type structure and only use the hangar for storage or to clear the flight deck for lily padding by another helo.

None of these are ideal solutions but the reality is the Navy could face themselves with having to operate MRH90s from the Anzacs. If it is selected for FNACS then these are the kind of modifications the Anzac class will need to keep a naval aviation capability. Working this out as soon as possible could allow these modifications to be conducted while the class go through the ASMD upgrade.
 

Hoffy

Member
Australian "Future submarines".

Mr Gubler , you seem to be very well read/informed.
I am particularly interested in the proposal to design & build 12 new conventionally powered submarines as part of the recently published Australian Defence White Paper.
They will obviously play a crucial role within our maritime denial strategy.
What are your thoughts on the final design and capabilities?
Are you OK with the plan to arm them with long range cruise missiles?
How large will they need to be?
Is there any recent news that gives us any information about where this project is actually up to?
What are your thoughts?
-Cheers
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Is there any recent news that gives us any information about where this project is actually up to?
None of the information pertaining to future sub requirements (fitout, mission reqs) has been released to the puiblic.

there's been a lot of media speculation, but some of the material actually discussed has not been aired.

there's been lots of speculation, a lot of it has been abject nonsense
 

SASWanabe

Member
there are some general ideas about it here

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collins_class_submarine_replacement_project"]Collins class submarine replacement project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Australian_Submarine_Corporation_building.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/Australian_Submarine_Corporation_building.jpg/220px-Australian_Submarine_Corporation_building.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/6/6f/Australian_Submarine_Corporation_building.jpg/220px-Australian_Submarine_Corporation_building.jpg[/ame]
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
there are some general ideas about it here
None of that remotely reflects what has actually been discussed.

again, all the stuff appearing in mags and on the internet has no relationship to what the engineers are actually looking at.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
"None"? so there is a chance they could be nuclear?
Yes they could be nuclear. And as the saying goes, "I can get you a good price on the Brooklyn Bridge..."

Some of the material talked about in the media is going to be accurate, just because certain criteria need to be met, i.e. it is a submarine, so it needs to be able to submerge and then surface again... Apart from normal fitout and capabilities of submarines (ability to launch torpedoes, sea mines, AShM, etc) the publically discussed capabilities are largely guess work on the part of different people. Some of whom do have some idea of what they are talking about, others are completely clueless.

The people who are likely in positions to know real facts about what is being discussed/planned are not going to disclose such information in any sort of public forum.

-Cheers
 

Abraham Gubler

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
I am particularly interested in the proposal to design & build 12 new conventionally powered submarines as part of the recently published Australian Defence White Paper.
They will obviously play a crucial role within our maritime denial strategy.
What are your thoughts on the final design and capabilities?
Are you OK with the plan to arm them with long range cruise missiles?
How large will they need to be?
Is there any recent news that gives us any information about where this project is actually up to?
What are your thoughts?
I wrote a six page or so article in a 2008 edition of 'The Navy' magazine of the Navy League about SEA 1000 and the key capability and technology issues associated with it. While there were were things in that article that won't come into effect and it has dated in the past two years it still remains a good starting point to understanding what is important for this project.
 

Jaimito

Banned Member
It is not useful to have 12 subs if you cannot man them properly, as said they are struggling to man 4 or 6, so before deciding what sub or what number of subs, they should decide an attractive offer for sailors to join subs crews, either that or you force sailors to go into subs for a part of their career...let´s see if any join the Ran even.
Officially it seems that if you are sub crew you are forced to some months of continuous deployment, this the hardest part of the job, let´s change this part and there will be more sailors that want to join, at the same time if you want to get the better "students" from all Ran sailors into the subs you need an offer of deployment very attractive so that most of Ran sailors apply for the sub.
Sailors don´t have to have fear from accidents in subs, nowadays with the scaping minisubs which connect to the sub at great depth, and the the internal hull of subs is stronger than the external hull, as some conventionals, resisting at more than the sub diving depth. All this in case the release of the sub´s weights doesn´t rise the sub up to surface in the emergency which in modern automated subs is very quick reaction if needed.
If you achieve 12 crews for 12 subs, with a rate of continuous deployment per crew as 1 month per year, you can have operative the same sub during all 12 months making 11 rotations of crews, or have 2 operative subs for 2 6 months missions. Better quality of life, not necessarily in dollars, provides more applications from surface sailors, who knows you might find an Raaf F18 pilot applying for the sub...
It is more important to guarantee that in a sudden conflict you can put 12 subs in the water, than to obtain beneficials from asigning longer and harder continuous deployment per crew which leads to lack of crews, ie lack of the fundamental capability.

How are they going to rotate the crews at sea in an stealth or direct manner? in the same way that they are going to refuel the conventional sub, in a discrete manner for example dressed up as a luxury very fast ship, like Abramovich´s, Briatore´s and company, or a fisher or cargo one etc, it is very plausible as the ocen is so great, and an easy distance of contact between the sub and the ship containing the new crew can be in like 1000 squared kms, almost impossible to detect. Or if simply you just are going to rotate the crew, not refuel the sub, with an hidroplane, or waterplane that can land at sea, and if big enough even to refuel the sub from the hidroplanes (as the counterfire hidroplanes carry much water). Apart you have the option of sending a fleet somewhere to stay there for the time wanted. These options also relief the necessity of a "bigger sub" and so don´t need to evolve any design, as risk rise, or desing a new one too big, as risk rise. And so you can concretate your budget in geeting as many subs as possible, not being conditioned by how big they need to be.
 
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