I understand that .... I was more focused on the size of the blocks (which appear to be quite a bigger than the DDG blocks) and the use of the wheeled transfer system to move and position them.
Just noting the difference.
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates
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Just noting the difference.
John Newman
The Bunker Group
Mate, you’ve massively undersold the size of the Civmec Henderson build hall:
The centre section of the roof is 130m long x 27m high x 40m wide. This is only the centre roof section. When raised, the building height is 70m in the centre.
Also have a look at this one too:
The centre bay is 187m long, the door is 60m high, and the door opening is 42m wide
The doors on two side bays are 30m high and appear to be almost as wide.
Without having the exact overall dimensions of the building in front of me, the hall is approx 190m deep/long x probably close to 100m wide.
It can easily fit a couple of DDGs or FFGs side by side in the centre bay and build two OPVs in one of the two side bays all at the same time too.
Cheers,
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The hall in which the OPV (and DDG) super blocks were assembled is building 04, the building under the “Ex” of “Existing Shipyard” in the photo StingrayOz posted. This is a guess, but it is probably about 1/5th the size of the HCF assembly building. These buildings are in ASC South; the facility used for Collins is in ASC North, and will become part of the submarine yard when that is built.
DDG super blocks came in various sizes; the largest were about the same size as the two which make up an ASC built OPV; but there were a lot more of them.
The transfer system is the same as that used for the DDG blocks; and indeed for a complete DDG.
DDG super blocks came in various sizes; the largest were about the same size as the two which make up an ASC built OPV; but there were a lot more of them.
The transfer system is the same as that used for the DDG blocks; and indeed for a complete DDG.
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I have. My apologies.
Clearly the original dimensions did not reflect the total size. To be fair, I got those dimension from a source that then confused a press release on the center section.. I used my google fu this one, and my google fu was bad. Even worse I included a picture with a Hobart and a Anzac clearly sitting within in the hall (and two OPVs!).
CIVMEC completes massive modular construction hall - Australian Manufacturing Forum
Perth marine engineering group CIVMEC (ASX:CVL) has completed construction of a massive new modular ship construction hall at the Henderson marine precinct. The 52,000 square metre facility is an incredible 18 storeys, or 70 metres tall, 130 metres long and 40 wide. Built to house complete air...
www.aumanufacturing.com.au
I would believe 187m x around ~120m. Given the main center door is ~40m and each side bay is about that wide (with a smaller door).
Given door clearance is 42m and length is ~187 (although not all of that length is available for ships ~ 20m is used for access in the building. It should easily be able to fit Type 26 in there. It may be even possible to squeeze two type 26 next to each other, in there (although would unlikely be useful to do so). Or for a sense of size, you could fit the width of the Queen Elizabeth Carrier, at its waterline, or any of its construction superblocks, between the doors, easily.
I guess in terms of sizing, its probably a reasonable upper limit.
The new Very Large Dry Berth is planned to go right in front of the main hall. Looks quite large, longer than the main hall. Something around 300-330m long.
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A Dry Birth? All births that I have attended and participated in haven't been exactly dry. Just saying.
John Newman
The Bunker Group
It’s pretty easy to envisage, with both of these two pieces of infrastructure, that the Henderson yard will be more than capable of building the two planned JSS and in the future the next generation of AORs and LHDs.
Block construction and mega block consolidation in the centre bay of the Civmec building, transport out to the dry dock, lower into position (probably require a gantry crane spanning the dry dock), consolidate the mega blocks, float out and fit out tied up alongside.
The future of naval shipbuilding is looking bright at both Henderson and Osborne.
Cheers,
Ok .. happy to be wrong but
Arafura Class OPV I Megablock move - Bing video
Suggest the transfer system was new to ASC. I accept it is not uncommon in many builds (including Spacex)
If that was the suggestion it gave then - it was incorrect and unintended!
Australia’s largest machine tool: Naval Group lands Droop+Rein five-axis gantry machine - AMTIL
Supplied to the Naval Group in Osborne, South Australia, a Droop+Rein gantry milling machine is the largest machine ever to be put into operation in Austral ...
amtil.com.au
Talking about big spinny things..
Also looks like Canberra is very nearly finished. Great shot of her lower parts. She didn't get just a paint job, they also removed and rebuilt both pods.
Huge maintenance task a first | Defence News
The recent completion of HMAS Canberra's maintenance is the first time an operation on such a scale had been performed in Australia.
Impressive. It would also have the ability to take on non defence work as well, if and when scheduling permits.
John Newman
The Bunker Group
It already does, has docked numerous cruise ships too.
Inside Sydney Harbour's 230-million-litre dry dock
Cheers,
I'm assuming you mean the milling machine? Even if the submarine project and (potential) other use in shipbuilding for the RAN uses up every available minute of machine time, it'll still benefit Australia and Australian businesses just by virtue of being there and in use doing things we otherwise might not dream of trying.
People often disparage the idea of expensively setting up to manufacture in Australia as money wasting, but the side effect of having local businesses in the supply chain, local kids able to pick up a new set of skills in manufacturing and the long term benefit of available local expertise who don't think anything is impossible is worth every cent.
oldsig
If it gets used that much, they will acquire another one. I wouldn't be surprised if that eventually happens.
A lot of these type of investments companies are often hesitant to make such capital investments where none have existed in the country before. However, once government accepts the risk, in terms of national interest, then such investments can be augmented and replicated. Again, most of the risk comes from the government itself, so it makes sense to show in terms of commitment to an industry or a project this kind of investment.
There was a significant investment in a large titanium mills for the F-35 production in Australia.
www.australianmanufacturing.com.au
Its these kind of investments that need to occur to increase Australian content in ships, submarines, aircraft etc. Also sovereign capability is extremely important. As Covid showed, when the STHF, these types of precision, expensive complex machines are just simply impossible to buy. There are global bottle necks on how many can be produced, and bigger and stronger forces will prevent export and limit export of the production capability. Case in point, Italy is currently prohibiting the export of the AZ vaccine to Australia. Vaccines are relatively easy to produce (particularly the AZ one) and we can see that even the EU will tear itself apart over them. Australia can produce the AZ one currently but we are investing over a billion to be able to produce newer types in the future, for our region. Masks and PPE was another.
www.aumanufacturing.com.au
We need the machines to make machines.
So one can imagine in a global conflict scenario, getting machines or their output would be near impossible. Fleets will be stuck in port, squadrons grounded, and production lines halted. Propellers are always highly valued as they can easily be damaged (think about one hitting a shipping container, or a rock). They can take months to mill out. Even a repair can be lengthy.
Inevitably these machines find commercial uses, milling plastic molds, steel press molds etc. This feeds into the economy. We did this before, back in the late 40's and early 50's, and that investment paid off every day for over 70 years.
Capability to fix podded propulsion will mean future cruise ships owned and operated in Australia can utilize this tech and know there is local know how to sustain and operate.
A lot of these type of investments companies are often hesitant to make such capital investments where none have existed in the country before. However, once government accepts the risk, in terms of national interest, then such investments can be augmented and replicated. Again, most of the risk comes from the government itself, so it makes sense to show in terms of commitment to an industry or a project this kind of investment.
There was a significant investment in a large titanium mills for the F-35 production in Australia.
BAE Systems Australia to manufacture titanium parts for F-35 jets in Adelaide facility - Australian Manufacturing
BAE Systems Australia has officially opened its new $10 million titanium machining facility at Edinburgh Parks, South Australia which would fabricate
www.australianmanufacturing.com.au
Its these kind of investments that need to occur to increase Australian content in ships, submarines, aircraft etc. Also sovereign capability is extremely important. As Covid showed, when the STHF, these types of precision, expensive complex machines are just simply impossible to buy. There are global bottle necks on how many can be produced, and bigger and stronger forces will prevent export and limit export of the production capability. Case in point, Italy is currently prohibiting the export of the AZ vaccine to Australia. Vaccines are relatively easy to produce (particularly the AZ one) and we can see that even the EU will tear itself apart over them. Australia can produce the AZ one currently but we are investing over a billion to be able to produce newer types in the future, for our region. Masks and PPE was another.
The face mask challenge - Australia still lacks sovereign manufacturing capability - Australian Manufacturing Forum
Politicians state and federal have been revelling in photo opportunities with that innovative coterie of manufacturers who have risen to the challenge of making personal protective gear (PPE) and medical ventilators that were formally imported. The latest was SA Premier Steven Marshall who...
www.aumanufacturing.com.au
We need the machines to make machines.
So one can imagine in a global conflict scenario, getting machines or their output would be near impossible. Fleets will be stuck in port, squadrons grounded, and production lines halted. Propellers are always highly valued as they can easily be damaged (think about one hitting a shipping container, or a rock). They can take months to mill out. Even a repair can be lengthy.
Inevitably these machines find commercial uses, milling plastic molds, steel press molds etc. This feeds into the economy. We did this before, back in the late 40's and early 50's, and that investment paid off every day for over 70 years.
Capability to fix podded propulsion will mean future cruise ships owned and operated in Australia can utilize this tech and know there is local know how to sustain and operate.
Off topic, but doesn't Australia also have a rare earth mining industry? If so, then the CoA should very seriously consider investment in the processing of the ores because that is what is required urgently. There is also reason to believe that there is a significant rare earth resource on the Zealandia continental sea floor, part of which is an Australian resource extraction area under the UNCLOS.
The processing of rare earth ores is expensive, but in a defence context it could be argued that it would be an industry of national significance for Australia, because the processed ores are what is required for modern day electronics from magnets to chips. It would reduce the current PRC stranglehold on rare earths and create Australian self sufficiency in a highly strategic resource.
The processing of rare earth ores is expensive, but in a defence context it could be argued that it would be an industry of national significance for Australia, because the processed ores are what is required for modern day electronics from magnets to chips. It would reduce the current PRC stranglehold on rare earths and create Australian self sufficiency in a highly strategic resource.
i Agree ..one thing is that a every $ taken home in an $AU a pay packet doesn’t stay there. It mostly gets spent within the country And the $1 go’s through the wash several times. The local grocer pays his suppliers, the coffee shop, the mechanic etc all go and spend their cut and so on and so on with a decent portion of it spent within the Australian economy. Even the gov takes some back in tax and GST so a billion on a domestic defence project might end up being $2-3 billion when washed back around in the domestic economy...hence why the gov want local content as much as possible. Don’t tell Robert about this BTW.
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It does, but it is sort of nascent and rather small beer compared to China, however there’s a number of new initiatives getting going: Who’s leading the race to join Lynas as Australia’s next supplier of rare earths? - Stockhead. In the past China has tended to behave a bit like any monopoly supplier, reducing costs to drive competitors out of the market and then increasing them again. However, more recent behaviour, including restrictions on the amount it would allow to be exported has both opened market opportunities and, it is to be hoped, some government’s eyes to the need to diversify which may be to Australia’s benefit.
Lynas also operates in Malaysia where there have been a number of environmental issues which are not yet fully resolved No EIA approval for Lynas waste site yet, says Pahang
I’m not sure if they are inherent to the process or just cost cutting, but it does suggest that the industry may need to be regulated like any other miner, which to be fair it already is in this country.
t68
Well-Known Member
New milling machine at osborne. Quite large. Could mill out propellors for a QE/Ford sized ship.Australia’s largest machine tool: Naval Group lands Droop+Rein five-axis gantry machine - AMTIL
Supplied to the Naval Group in Osborne, South Australia, a Droop+Rein gantry milling machine is the largest machine ever to be put into operation in Austral ...
Talking about big spinny things..
Also looks like Canberra is very nearly finished. Great shot of her lower parts. She didn't get just a paint job, they also removed and rebuilt both pods.
Huge maintenance task a first | Defence News
The recent completion of HMAS Canberra's maintenance is the first time an operation on such a scale had been performed in Australia.news.defence.gov.au
View attachment 48058
Me being not really up with the maintenance side of things that float, is that a usual occurrence for when a ship goes into maintenance that the propellers are replaced with new one, or do they mean the where clean and I imagine balanced?
Like any piece of equipment propellers are subject to wear and obviously damage.
Most common is pitting and other forms of damage caused by electrolysis. You can see the scale of the cathodic protection provided in the previous pic but that doesn’t eradicate the problem, just slows it.
The tips are also vulnerable to damage from operation in shallow water (rubble) such as berthing.
In most cases props can be repaired, pitting filled, edges built up and machined etc but when a grounding or large object damage occurs they may need to be changed.
The rate earths are not that rare...mostly are commonly found but in minute volumes...so where mined typically a bit more concentrated...it’s just that it costs a fortune to process and is an environmental issue as the waste is toxic and has to be stored somewhere. no one wants a skate park next door so imagine trying to build a processing plant in au. That’s why Lynas mine the stuff here but send to Malaysia for processing.
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