Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

[ADMk2]

While the Phalanx loader cassette does only have sufficient rounds for reasonably short engagements, ships fitted with the weapon generally have the capacity to reload a considerable number of times. More detail not forthcoming.

Sea RAM’s whole concept is for it to be easily reloaded at sea. Can’t remember whether it takes three or four personnel, but it’s not much more than that; and it requires a bit of kit but not a lot. There are videos on YouTube showing it being done.

Me being me, I would really much rather the RAN drop the Bushmaster II 30 mm gun and adopt a navalised version of the Oerlikon KCE 30 mm which is the gun used in the Skyranger 30. Yes, the mounting will likely be more than a Bushmaster II + Typhoon combo, but then the RAN would be operating a weapon designed to deal with a range of close aerial threats. The Bushmaster II, with a max ROF of ~200 rds/min and AFAIK not designed with a targeting system intended to engage maneuvering aerial targets would likely be hard pressed to hit small jinking UAV's never mind score hits on inbound missiles.

Somehow though I suspect the Australia will stick with the Bushmaster family even for applications where there are much better options available.

The Bushmaster M242 25mm gun is what RAN currently uses mounted in a Rafael Typhoon remote weapon station, it’s the RWS networked with the combat system that does the targetting…I am not sure anyone has ever suggested the Typhoon is lacking compared to simil

The 30mm Bushmaster II gun that RAN has selected is to be mounted in the Rafael Mk.30C Remote Weapon Station, which is an updated version of the Typhoon RWS, which again does the targetting, provides stabilisation etc.

The main difference between the 2 apart from 20 years of technological development and greater range and lethality of the 30mm round compared to the 25mm round, is that the 30mm affords the ability to employ proximity fused rounds and programmable ammunition (like AHEAD) natures both of which are vastly superior in the anti-air role compared to the typical HEI rounds employed by the 25mm guns.

The Skyranger is not a marinised system so you can imagine the problems there putting it on a naval vessel…

 

[Todjaeger]

The Bushmaster M242 25mm gun is what RAN currently uses mounted in a Rafael Typhoon remote weapon station, it’s the RWS networked with the combat system that does the targetting…I am not sure anyone has ever suggested the Typhoon is lacking compared to simil

The 30mm Bushmaster II gun that RAN has selected is to be mounted in the Rafael Mk.30C Remote Weapon Station, which is an updated version of the Typhoon RWS, which again does the targetting, provides stabilisation etc.

The main difference between the 2 apart from 20 years of technological development and greater range and lethality of the 30mm round compared to the 25mm round, is that the 30mm affords the ability to employ proximity fused rounds and programmable ammunition (like AHEAD) natures both of which are vastly superior in the anti-air role compared to the typical HEI rounds employed by the 25mm guns.

The Skyranger is not a marinised system so you can imagine the problems there putting it on a naval vessel…

True Skyranger is not, though it might be a good gun or gun/missile-based VSHORAD option for Army. However, Rheinmetall has been working on a similar use of the same gun, albeit navalized mounting, known as Sea Snake. I believe the weapon system has entered service with the Brazilian Navy fitted to their new Tamandare-class frigates.

The issue I have with the Bushmaster/Typhoon combo aboard RAN MFU is the same one I have had for a number of years, namely that whilst such a combination can be effective vs. smallcraft, the same cannot be honestly said about many potential aerial targets.

Now I am not particularly tied to any one system, but I would much rather the RAN start adopting a dual or multi-purpose small calibe rapid fire gun system which can provide some capabilities covering both anti-air and anti-surface.

 

[JBRobbo]

Now that MBDA's Mistral-3 MANPADS/VSRAD missile is set to be manufactured in Australia, it opens a whole new can of worms. Although stated recently by Navalnews.com that according to 'RAN sources' the Australian Mogami's would retain the SeaRAM, after this development I would wager they won't be fitted with a CIWS at all. Afterall, they publicly announced 3x Phalanx mounts for each of the Canberra class over 7 years ago and that has still yet to eventuate. Although RAM Blk2 is clearly superior to Mistral-3 in every regard, it isn't planned to be manufactured here, is significantly more expensive per shot and can't be used by the Army.

Australia eyes local production of the French Mistral air defense missile in Sydney

NIOA and MBDA signed an MoU at Indo Pacific 2025 to explore Australian Mistral missile production, aligning with GWEO goals to boost sovereign air defense capac

www.armyrecognition.com

Safran Turns NGDS Decoy Launcher into CIWS with Mistral Missiles - Naval News

Safran is working on a new development of its NGDS trainable decoy launcher which would turn it into a Mistral missile launcher / CIWS...

www.navalnews.com

 

[JBRobbo]

Now that MBDA's Mistral-3 MANPADS/VSRAD missile is set to be manufactured in Australia, it opens a whole new can of worms. Although stated recently by Navalnews.com that according to 'RAN sources' the Australian Mogami's would retain the SeaRAM, after this development I would wager they won't be fitted with a CIWS at all. Afterall, they publicly announced 3x Phalanx mounts for each of the Canberra class over 7 years ago and that has still yet to eventuate. Although RAM Blk2 is clearly superior to Mistral-3 in every regard, it isn't planned to be manufactured here, is significantly more expensive per shot and can't be used by the Army.

Australia eyes local production of the French Mistral air defense missile in Sydney

NIOA and MBDA signed an MoU at Indo Pacific 2025 to explore Australian Mistral missile production, aligning with GWEO goals to boost sovereign air defense capac

www.armyrecognition.com

Safran Turns NGDS Decoy Launcher into CIWS with Mistral Missiles - Naval News

Safran is working on a new development of its NGDS trainable decoy launcher which would turn it into a Mistral missile launcher / CIWS...

www.navalnews.com

The RAN has a history with Mistral too, if i remember correctly 2x4-round 'TETRAL' launchers for Mistral-2 were reportedly the preferred option for an inner layer/secondary air defence capability for the ANZAC's back before the ASMD/AMCAP upgrades began.

 

[Volkodav]

They would be an interesting possibility OPV, PB, and even the army's new amphibs.

Affordable and great for leakers through longer ranged systems.

 

[Stampede]

What happens if someone try’s to board these when they are 2-3 hundred clicks from other RAN vessels?

Something in what you, say but I think unmanned may not necessarily mean unattended.
Probably a manned floating thing in company with said concept

Like the modularity.
A modern mexeflote of sorts.

Cheers S

 

[spoz]

Although RAM Blk2 is clearly superior to Mistral-3 in every regard, it isn't planned to be manufactured here, is significantly more expensive per shot and can't be used by the Army.

Australia eyes local production of the French Mistral air defense missile in Sydney

NIOA and MBDA signed an MoU at Indo Pacific 2025 to explore Australian Mistral missile production, aligning with GWEO goals to boost sovereign air defense capac

www.armyrecognition.com

Safran Turns NGDS Decoy Launcher into CIWS with Mistral Missiles - Naval News

Safran is working on a new development of its NGDS trainable decoy launcher which would turn it into a Mistral missile launcher / CIWS...

www.navalnews.com

Nor do they use ESSM, SM-2, SM-6 or SM-3. Mistral is not integrated with the CMS or autonomous in action; they might end embarking it as an additional system in combatants or in auxiliaries, but I’m pretty sure the Mogamis will come with Sea RAM.

 

[Stampede]

They would be an interesting possibility OPV, PB, and even the army's new amphibs.

Affordable and great for leakers through longer ranged systems.

Always thought mounting a few light weight SAMs or ATGMs on a 25 / 30mm mount was a good use of a ships geography.
Mistral and Spike come to mind.

Yes some integration , but what a useful package for what does not take up too much space or weight.

Gun / missile combinations are not a new concept.

A prudent bit of Hail Mary insurance for when it counts

Cheers S

 

[swerve]

Although RAM Blk2 is clearly superior to Mistral-3 in every regard, it isn't planned to be manufactured here, is significantly more expensive per shot and can't be used by the Army.

Superior in every respect - but weighs several times as much, as well as the cost & only having shipboard launchers.

 

[Reptilia]

Navantia Australia’s Smart LPD concept. Naval News.

Length - Approx 200m
Weight - Approx 20,000tonnes
Crew - Approx 170, accommodates up to 530
Speed - Max 23knts
VLS - 32 Mk41 cells
Electric propulsion
Duel role Amphibious operations platform/Mothership for unmanned systems.