Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

[Volkodav]

Critical mass make a lot of difference.

When I last moved there the gas project was in full swing, the whole of 1 BDE were there, things were booming. Over the years things started winding down, opportunities diminished, the bogans took over.

Get some critical mass back again and it will be more cosmopolitan, more opportunities for kids and partners of service members.

A thought crosses my mind, when you look at what is happening FBW, Stirling is going to be full to the brim with submarines by the end of the decade. Even with capital works and expansion of wharves etc. there won't be enough space for all the frigates. Maybe a couple of ANZACs could be home ported in Darwin.

 

[Redlands18]

Critical mass make a lot of difference.

When I last moved there the gas project was in full swing, the whole of 1 BDE were there, things were booming. Over the years things started winding down, opportunities diminished, the bogans took over.

Get some critical mass back again and it will be more cosmopolitan, more opportunities for kids and partners of service members.

A thought crosses my mind, when you look at what is happening FBW, Stirling is going to be full to the brim with submarines by the end of the decade. Even with capital works and expansion of wharves etc. there won't be enough space for all the frigates. Maybe a couple of ANZACs could be home ported in Darwin.

Australia's strategic situation would be so much less complicated if Exmouth was the size of Darwin, about halfway between Perth and Darwin by sea, would have the ability to support decent sized military bases. Has a quite short run into deep water for Subs

 

[Volkodav]

Australia's strategic situation would be so much less complicated if Exmouth was the size of Darwin, about halfway between Perth and Darwin by sea, would have the ability to support decent sized military bases. Has a quite short run into deep water for Subs

Developing Exmouth would take the sort of strategic planning and commitment no Australian government has exhibited in decades.

Remember we are a nation living of mining and farming, run by lawyers and accountants, were everyone else is funneled into service industries. Our leaders don't do difficult, they don't do vision.

Just look at the Productivity Commission. Science, technology and manufacturing requires long term investment, training, infrastructure, commitment and certainty, therefore too hard. Service industry require vocational training and casual labour, therefore ideal. There is no room for productivity increases in low skilled service industries, therefore there is no possibility of improving productivity unless real wages are cut.

This is where both sides of Australian politics have been since the 90s.

 

[Redlands18]

Developing Exmouth would take the sort of strategic planning and commitment no Australian government has exhibited in decades.

Remember we are a nation living of mining and farming, run by lawyers and accountants, were everyone else is funneled into service industries. Our leaders don't do difficult, they don't do vision.

Just look at the Productivity Commission. Science, technology and manufacturing requires long term investment, training, infrastructure, commitment and certainty, therefore too hard. Service industry require vocational training and casual labour, therefore ideal. There is no room for productivity increases in low skilled service industries, therefore there is no possibility of improving productivity unless real wages are cut.

This is where both sides of Australian politics have been since the 90s.

I meant the town of Exmouth itself had a similar size population to Darwin, I think if it did, I think it would already have a ADF footprint similar to Darwin and Townsville.

 

[old faithful]

I really can't see this as an issue, RAN is recruited from all over the country, a posting to Darwin is a huge no for many including myself. Not just the remote locally, but the heat. I was offered promotion to go to Darwin in late 2021 and knocked it back, not a chance I would serve in the top end.

Fair dinkum?
You would discharge before accepting a post to Darwin, because it's too hot? Wow, Australians are getting soft. You chose to serve the nation, you should accept what that entails. It might mean being posted anywhere in the world if need be.

 

[old faithful]

Darwin is fine for a couple of years but sucks when you hit a decade.

Career wise it's really hard for technical people, the small population meaning a lot of people with no idea, no qualifications, no experience get senior roles while the rare few highly technically competent people who, unless they specifically come up to do a job, hit the ground and are often. mis or under employed by the Idiocracy.

Senior competent people get pissed of very quickly, while morons are rocketed through the ranks "cos they're a good bloke or an awesome chick".

Ex truck or bus driver, a flight attendant, or trades assistant, cool you can be a data analyst, or a ship manager. Ex Greenie kellick enrolled in (but not started) an engineering degree, cool you are our electrical engineer and here's the grad to do your work for you. Ex chief who retired before the old DDGs did, who may or may not know how to do his shoe laces, yep you can be the technical manager.

What most demonstrates my issue with Darwin is this. I was born there and against my wishes spent about a third of my life there. Talking to an old codger he says, how long have you been here, "I was born here".
"When were you born",
I tell him.
He replies"I came here in 196...." "I'm a terratorian and you are a blow in".
Me, "Nah mate, you are a f*ckwit".

Darwin is a paradise for self important bogans.

Well well well.
Quick lesson for those who have no idea how the NT is.
The entire Territory has population of about 250,000. To put that into perspective, the Northern beaches of Sydney has a population of about 260,000.
Darwin/Palmerston has a population of about 160,000, but no one is really sure.
Next biggest town ,close to Darwin is Katherine, 300km away with about 10,000.
The biggest employer in the NT is the NT Government.
Right. So.....if someone who grows up in the NT, and is happy there, and is employed in an NT government department, decides to have a career in the public service, they have next to NO chance of working to an executive position.Those positions are advertised nationally, and interstates with resumes in states with huge infrastructure, will win the job, locals can't compete. So those exec blows ins, do 2 or 3 years in a higher position than they held in their own state, add the NT position to their resume, and in general, do a terrible job while they are in Darwin, because they have no idea of just how different Darwin/Alice is to Sydney/Melbourne etc.
So the majority of people employed in the NT are managed by EXPERTS from interstate. Those must be the people that Volk is referring to as the morons who employ idiots.
Personally, I love the NT, warts and all. I have a great lifestyle that my job allows me to pursue. Because, your job should not be your life and main interest. Your job should allow you to persue your main interests. It's 2.5 hours to Bali, we have great fishing, camping and other things to do. For me, it's gold prospecting, and it supplements my wages fairly nicely....until we get some southerner in govt job who will change the way we can do things to bring us into line with the populated states.

 

[Bob53]

Critical mass make a lot of difference.

When I last moved there the gas project was in full swing, the whole of 1 BDE were there, things were booming. Over the years things started winding down, opportunities diminished, the bogans took over.

Get some critical mass back again and it will be more cosmopolitan, more opportunities for kids and partners of service members.

A thought crosses my mind, when you look at what is happening FBW, Stirling is going to be full to the brim with submarines by the end of the decade. Even with capital works and expansion of wharves etc. there won't be enough space for all the frigates. Maybe a couple of ANZACs could be home ported in Darwin.

I lived in Darwin for 2 years early 80s. Everyone was running away or hiding from something or someone…or otherwise in the defence. As mentioned here a lot of people running things with the only training was what they picked up off McYver. Self important drongos running even the smallest business. I started in linehaul trucks there. Business Manager decided to drive his wife and 4 kids to Brisbane in one of the business HZ Utes. Before anyone raises an eyebrow … It was OK it had a bench seat…. It broke down out of tenant creek so he got it towed back and then they all jumped in another of the utes and took off again. Spent 1 day I. Brisbane and then drove back. He was running a trucking business With 30 staff at the time …said he drank a slab each way to stay awake.

I loved and hated Darwin…been back a few times to visit mates. Lifestyle, fishing, shooting, sport and the bush is great but the social problems I couldn’t live with. I understand why some would not want to be there but they should give it a go.

 

[Jason_DBF]

I think that the original point being discussed was that, if the ABF was operating all the coastal vessels, they would have more difficulty manning them because all their operations are in remote areas whereas the RAN can post crew to remote locations for 2-3 years before returning them to more populous bases. I think the ABF would struggle to find large numbers of people with the necessary skills who would be happy to live in these areas on a permanent basis.

ABF operate on a FIFO model 4 weeks at sea then 4 weeks off. The at sea part could include an along side maintenance period.

 

[StoresBasher]

Fair dinkum?
You would discharge before accepting a post to Darwin, because it's too hot? Wow, Australians are getting soft. You chose to serve the nation, you should accept what that entails. It might mean being posted anywhere in the world if need be.

No I said I knocked back a promotion offer to go to Darwin, the reasons are many, but none of your business.
Two weeks later I was offered another one to a different location which I accepted.
These days with retention a huge issue, you can pick pretty much pick and choose your posting locality.
No one is going soft, it's about putting yourself first and looking after number one.

 

[Jason_DBF]

No one is going soft, it's about putting yourself first and looking after number one.

According to Chief of Navy "It's service before self" but I know what you mean.

 

[old faithful]

No I said I knocked back a promotion offer to go to Darwin, the reasons are many, but none of your business.
Two weeks later I was offered another one to a different location which I accepted.
These days with retention a huge issue, you can pick pretty much pick and choose your posting locality.
No one is going soft, it's about putting yourself first and looking after number one.

Ahhh the old look after #1.....in the Army, that used be called being a "Jack C..t" , but you are right, none of my business as a tax payer that servicemen refuse to go where they are needed, because it's too hot. You joined the NAVY, the NAVY didn't join you.

 

[Jason_DBF]

Ahhh the old look after #1.....in the Army, that used be called being a "Jack C..t" , but you are right, none of my business as a tax payer that servicemen refuse to go where they are needed, because it's too hot. You joined the NAVY, the NAVY didn't join you.

He didn't refuse to go anywhere. If you read what he said he was offered a promotion with associated posting and declined.

 

[ADMk2]

Ahhh the old look after #1.....in the Army, that used be called being a "Jack C..t" , but you are right, none of my business as a tax payer that servicemen refuse to go where they are needed, because it's too hot. You joined the NAVY, the NAVY didn't join you.

Sorry, in what world does offered mean the same as needed?

He clearly received multiple offers for promotion within a similar timeframe. Aren’t they all ‘needed’ as was his substantive position should he choose not to accept any of the offers?

Your comments are out of line here.

 

[Volkodav]

I'm living proof of why you should put yourself first at least some of the time. The ideal is you work hard, prove yourself, it gets noticed, you get rewarded. BS.

Some self promoting toss will waltz in and get the opportunity and you will get to work your backside off to make them look good.

The most powerful word I ever learnt was "No". Use it properly and appropriately and your life will get much better.

Rule of thumb, no organisation ever comes in with their best offer first up.

 

[old faithful]

I don't think it's out of line at all.
The ADF is not a regular, mainstream job.
It's members swear an oath to serve the nations interests.
Let's say we as a nation have a need.
We have a base in the bottom of a concrete hole that needs to be manned because of national security, and no one wants to be posted there....let's say it's near Alice Springs, I'm sure there are plenty of US military personnel who just don't want to be there, same as Exmouth.
When you join the regular defence force, you agree to serve your country, where you are needed. If everyone jacks up and only wants postings near big cities, or places where Hawaiian shirts and coconut trees are the norm, then maybe they should pursue a different career. Take the good with the bad.

 

[diggumsbang]

On the topic of Exmouth, the proposed Gascoyne Gateway deep water jetty looks interesting for those that weren’t aware of its development.

https://gascoynegateway.com.au/design/

Clear reference to RAN/ABF as the primary users and significant marine diesel and aviation fuel capacity planned. Full capacity by 2025.

 

[Volkodav]

I don't think it's out of line at all.
The ADF is not a regular, mainstream job.
It's members swear an oath to serve the nations interests.
Let's say we as a nation have a need.
We have a base in the bottom of a concrete hole that needs to be manned because of national security, and no one wants to be posted there....let's say it's near Alice Springs, I'm sure there are plenty of US military personnel who just don't want to be there, same as Exmouth.
When you join the regular defence force, you agree to serve your country, where you are needed. If everyone jacks up and only wants postings near big cities, or places where Hawaiian shirts and coconut trees are the norm, then maybe they should pursue a different career. Take the good with the bad.

True, it's not a regular mainstream job, at the same time that doesn't mean those who join up should be screwed over.

There should be recognition of skills abilities, effort. Those who step up should be rewarded. The biggest failing of defence is grinding high achievers into ground until they break or leave, while playing favorites and promoting pretty boys and lads.

 

[ADMk2]

I don't think it's out of line at all.
The ADF is not a regular, mainstream job.
It's members swear an oath to serve the nations interests.
Let's say we as a nation have a need.
We have a base in the bottom of a concrete hole that needs to be manned because of national security, and no one wants to be posted there....let's say it's near Alice Springs, I'm sure there are plenty of US military personnel who just don't want to be there, same as Exmouth.
When you join the regular defence force, you agree to serve your country, where you are needed. If everyone jacks up and only wants postings near big cities, or places where Hawaiian shirts and coconut trees are the norm, then maybe they should pursue a different career. Take the good with the bad.

Firstly how do you know where the promotion he took posted him to? You haven’t the faintest idea of the ‘need’ of the respective postings nor even the location of the promotion he did take.

In short you know absolutely nothing about either of them, yet you know that’s what “jack c*nts” do? That is what out of line and if you had any decency you’d withdraw and retract, those comments.

To me knowing absolutely nothing about the situation and offering your opinion nonetheless is what is jack.

 

[Volkodav]

Firstly how do you know where the promotion he took posted him to? You haven’t the faintest idea of the ‘need’ of the respective postings nor even the location of the promotion he did take.

In short you know absolutely nothing about either of them, yet you know that’s what “jack c*nts” do? That is what out of line and if you had any decency you’d withdraw and retract, those comments.

To me knowing absolutely nothing about the situation and offering your opinion nonetheless is what is jack.

Very true.

A reality check, why on earth would an up and coming MEO with a master's in systems engineering or capability management post to Darwin to work on patrol boats rather than to Adelaide or Canberra to work on LOTE, Nukes, or Hunters?

Why would someone with a partner who needs to find work go to Darwin if there was a choice?

 

[Takao]

Ahhh the old look after #1.....in the Army, that used be called being a "Jack C..t" , but you are right, none of my business as a tax payer that servicemen refuse to go where they are needed, because it's too hot. You joined the NAVY, the NAVY didn't join you.

That's out of line.

I would have no issues if one of my subordinates was made such an offer and they turned it down. I strongly advise them to consider their, and their families needs, first. I have had subordinates take and turn down similar offers.

That offer is very different to a posting order. A posting order is direction and, while you can challenge it, everyone knows is to be obeyed. An offer for promotion but a different locality is reasonably common, but not an order.