So they should be, in the interests of National Security, loose lips sink ships et al.
That's the good side of Official Secrets acts, the downside is that it also ensures the truth behind decision making involving many billions of dollars won't be known for at least 30 years, if ever.
Senior government officials and politicians will have retired and gone on to consultancies, directorships or unbelievably lucrative speaking tours and passed into history very wealthy men.
Senior military officers who didn't rock the boat will have got the promotions they were after, or to rephrase, would definitely not have got if they had rocked the it. There are also consultancies and various well paid positions available for them in the after service life aren't there?
Buying the Super Hornets is a great decision given the amount of money wasted and still to be wasted [CBRs] on many of our present aged Hornet fleet and another 24 wouldn't go astray. This is not to say many of the upgrades weren't necessary but now the USN is sharing it's production batches with us, they're surely not necessary to complete, given the often mentioned opinions about no real threats in this area.
According to much of the 'expert' opinion in this thread, I have read all 86 pages prior to joining, the new Hornet will do all that is required in our area. More importantly it seems, though not as strenuously put, we will be able to quickly send them elsewhere as a fully integrated part of a coalition force. To be seen as a good, dutiful ally no doubt but integration with our major allies' systems is essential, providing they actually share all data with us.
The logic of some experts here escapes me a little as at one time they argue, for example, the F111 [even upgraded] is unsurvivable in our area so we need the F35 but at other times the same experts argue we have/will have no credible threats in this region so the F22 [even if available, as was proposed at one time] is not required. Little mention is made of how our classic Hornets would cope over the next ten years.
I am not, nor have ever been connected with a site so many here hate with a passion so any negative comments re my mention of the F111 and F22 will be wasted.
My only point here is we own the F111 fleet and the F22 is in service plus it is my understanding it was cleared at a high level for supply to Australia only, at one point, then suddenly killed. I believe that was just before our decision to join the JSF program was suddenly announced?
There has been much fuss made about an orphan F111 fleet. I'd rather own a potent orphan than an unfilled order form, at least until the item ordered is tested and in service. Enough Super Hornets should do well enough though.
The Israelis seem to do rather well with orphans and an indigenous arms industry to support them, don't they?
It is abundantly clear the decision to commit to a proposed purchase of the developmental F35 [no matter how great it will, or may be] was heavily politically influenced and it is also in Lockheed Martin's interest to have us tied to the JSF program and not the F22. To think that Lockheed Martin and Boeing don't have huge political clout here and in the USA is unrealistic.
So many times in this thread 'expert' comments have been made about senior ADF staff watching their career prospects, so why should I believe that unbiased appraisals of our needs, presented by personnel committed to the troops, are prevalent at the highest level? If they are and their judgments are being ignored surely word would have got out by now?
The reality is defense purchases are all too often a political compromise which leaves us waiting for assets our service personnel deserve to have and not always the ones they should have, when they should have them.
The F35 may be as good as it's proposed to be, it is not yet proven and it may be deliverable in the time frame quoted, only time will tell.
Anyone, 'expert' or not, who claims these things as a certainty would do well to remember the original F111 saga [amongst many others] and stop playing PR man for Lockheed Martin or their own undisclosed interests if any.
It's in Boeing's and the USN's interest to sell us the Super Hornet from the USNs' production lots, so we should take advantage of that and buy another 24 and take the pressure off our Classic squadrons ASAP.
It may not be an F111, F22, F15E or F35 but it is proven, multi-role, available now, compatible with our infrastructure and new off the line. The F35 is not yet an operational reality, despite what one could read here about its 'capabilities', the future of the F111 has been decided but surely it could be kept flying long enough to allow complete delivery of the additional Supers and the retirement of 24 of our oldest Hornets? I doubt this would have any impact on the numbers of F35s we may have on the roster in the long run and would give us a much more economical , reliable, modern combat capability in a much shorter time frame.
Cheers,
Mac
Just quoted yours as its on topic with a few posts there in regards to the F-22...
The RAAF has had a terrible history with its aquisition of front line jet aircraft. The terrible mistake that no one thought could be possibly made again was unbelievebly - made again.
The F-111 Saga, a blessing in diguise it turns out - truely one of the greatest aircraft ever designed and I'd give General Dynamics my first born in thanks if they still existed - The delays in delivery resulted in us aquireing the F-4 Phontoms and almost buying back from the scrapyards what was left of our Canberra fleet in interim.
After that, some of you might remember or know of the proccess and in particular the aircraft in the running for the Mirage fighter replacment many years back?
Off the top off my head, the options were:
F-16 Falcon
F-14 Tomcat
F-15 Eagle
F/A-18 Hornet
Saab Vigen
Mirage 2000
I think there may have been one or two more, but that list still clearly demonstrates that we have a peanut at the helm when it came to selection. The criteria basically called for specially a TWIN ENGINE supersonic capable fighter. SO that wrote the F-16 off for reasons now wrong or right...
But surely... surely even those of you who are fans of that horrid aicraft named the "Hornet" must agree, that there is
zero competition when it comes to deciding between the capabilities of a Hornet Vs the F-14 (which may have been shyed away from due to the F-111's dramas that occured because of the swing wing and its pivot box failure in early days, which was the cause of delay) and failing the F-14, the F-15 was still without question the correct choice there!?!?
I'm an open opponent of the whole F-18 series aircraft I'll admit, but even those of you who like the things must admit that we should be flying the F-15's today.
It seems history has a way of repeating though.
Australia wanted the F-22 Raptor as no doubt you all know... problem was, America doesnt trust anyone with them. Its not like we've been at thier side through every conflict or anything... we shouldnt be trusted us Aussies... all convicts!
The reasoning was pretty blunt, "we're not prepared to share the technology of the F-22 with any foreighn nation..." - Well thanks America... What they are essentially saying is, the F-35 is rubbish, the F-22 is the only aircraft that is truely comparable to the SU-27/30/35 aircraft that all of our rather hostile (bloody kiwi's
j/k ) neighbours are equipping with and you expect us to play bitch in the Oceana reigon for the next 20 or so years... if we last that long now...
The ironic thing is... we've been offered the SUKOI, and we're still too busy impressing america and the now rather defunkt NATO allies, on the other side of the world....
Its pretty obviouse that if we got the Sukoi's, it would be frowned upon by our other western allies for "starting to do bizzo with the commies" ... but the fact is, if the US gave us the F-22 aircraft we really wanted (because at least they then wouldnt be watching our air force on the Comedy Channel like the joke it is about to become) instead of onselling us thier runner up prize, we wouldnt be forced into that position...
To rub salt in the wounds, we bought more of those damn F-18's. I hope Kevin Rudd has a family member who at least knows what a Boing 747 is... at least then somone might be able to advise him a little better than Johnny Howard and his amazing knowledge of Military Aircraft capabilities
I cant help but feel though, the whole F-35 program is being forced upon us all now - because I have a funny feeling Lockheed Martin really needed this win... or they might have followed the path of McDonel Douglass and General Dynamics, down the drain.
Boing had a cry when they lost the JSF competition, but they have thier airliner and heavy transport aircraft industry to pay the bills, having an ugly aircraft diddnt help much either though I guess
Anyway, rant over, sorry, in Summary, F-111's good, F-18's bad, and Australia is going to get owned one day very soon with our loss of regional air superiority.
