Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

[OldTex]

I read this and wondered why this sale was prohibited to Australia its from last year of course
Text - S.J.Res.53 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): A joint resolution providing for congressional disapproval of the proposed foreign military sale to the Government of Australia of certain defense articles and services. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

Reading the details provided on the link shows that the resolution was sponsored by Senator Paul Rand and it was read twice and submitted to the Senate Foreign Relations committee on 23 June 2022, since then there has been no further action. So either it has lapsed due to a time limit expiration (don't know enough about the byzantine workings of the US Congress to know if this is the case) or it was used as a negotiation ploy between Republicans and Democrats.
But as @Redlands18 says on this side of the pond it is assumed that the FMS went through. (But assumption is the mother of all ****ups)

 

[FormerDirtDart]

Reading the details provided on the link shows that the resolution was sponsored by Senator Paul Rand and it was read twice and submitted to the Senate Foreign Relations committee on 23 June 2022, since then there has been no further action. So either it has lapsed due to a time limit expiration (don't know enough about the byzantine workings of the US Congress to know if this is the case) or it was used as a negotiation ploy between Republicans and Democrats.
But as @Redlands18 says on this side of the pond it is assumed that the FMS went through. (But assumption is the mother of all ****ups)

It's lapsed at the very least. Jan 3rd marked a new Congress, nothing carries over.

 

[seaspear]

Thanks for the reply, sounded weird

 

[Severely]

I know this was probably a great photo op for the RAAF but it still fascinates me concept wise. Apart from lack of an integral gun a growler with AMRAAMs even a single jamming pod, albeit to be upgraded, would make for a fascinating missile launching platform in air to air. Combined with the F-35A and E-7. Makes for a lethal Hunter Killer combination. The added bonus of the other 12 later model Rhinos being wired for possible future upgrade. I know this may be dreaming but the photo provides a thought provoking image. I still doubt this would be an operational role at this very moment.

 

[ADMk2]

I know this was probably a great photo op for the RAAF but it still fascinates me concept wise. Apart from lack of an integral gun a growler with AMRAAMs even a single jamming pod, albeit to be upgraded, would make for a fascinating missile launching platform in air to air. Combined with the F-35A and E-7. Makes for a lethal Hunter Killer combination. The added bonus of the other 12 later model Rhinos being wired for possible future upgrade. I know this may be dreaming but the photo provides a thought provoking image. I still doubt this would be an operational role at this very moment.

Apart from Growlers being restricted to subsonic flight only when carrying their external jamming pods? I rather think both USN and RAAF have better uses for their Growlers than A2A roles, both have plenty of platforms that can do those roles, but comparatively few for the dedicated EW mission. AMRAAM / Sidewinder on Growler is more of a self-defence capability, IMHO.

Even NGJ supposedly isn’t rated for supersonic flight apparently, though happy to accept correction on this point.

 

[seaspear]

With the news of the Chinese balloon over the U.S it might be interesting to consider what Australia could have done in the same position ,the only aircraft the U.S had of shooting it down was the F-22 which flies higher than the other fighters the U.S has certainly higher than what Australia has
Chinese balloon advanced, hard to shoot down: US expert - CNA (channelnewsasia.com)
Why Shooting Down China’s Spy Balloon Over The U.S. Is More Complicated Than It Seems (msn.com)
Chinese spy balloon over the US: An aerospace expert explains how the balloons work and what they can see - ABC News

 

[swerve]

The Lightning could have done it, but not very far from a runway. Typhoon? Officially "more than 55,000 feet". But by the time a few (in case of technical problems) had flown there, it could be too late.

 

[old faithful]

Why couldn't an F35 or F18 have done it?
What's the service ceiling of an AMRAAM or Sidewinder?

 

[Aardvark144]

Just putting it out there in response to why couldn't an F35 or F/A-18 have done it? Perhaps the F22 Squadron was the NORAD Alert Unit?

 

[swerve]

Why couldn't an F35 or F18 have done it?
What's the service ceiling of an AMRAAM or Sidewinder?

The missile won't have a service ceiling (except needing enough air for steering aerodynamically, if it doesn't have an alternative means), but it'll have a limit on how far it can climb. The faster the carrier's going when it's launched will affect that. So, hard to say.

 

[old faithful]

Why couldn't an F35 or F18 have done it?
What's the service ceiling of an AMRAAM or Sidewinder?

This was meant to be a response to Seaspear, sorry. There is no reason that the RAAF couldn't engage a high altitude target, was all I wanted to point out.

 

[ADMk2]

With the news of the Chinese balloon over the U.S it might be interesting to consider what Australia could have done in the same position ,the only aircraft the U.S had of shooting it down was the F-22 which flies higher than the other fighters the U.S has certainly higher than what Australia has
Chinese balloon advanced, hard to shoot down: US expert - CNA (channelnewsasia.com)
Why Shooting Down China’s Spy Balloon Over The U.S. Is More Complicated Than It Seems (msn.com)
Chinese spy balloon over the US: An aerospace expert explains how the balloons work and what they can see - ABC News

Super Hornet service ceiling was cleared to and raised officially to 55,000 feet for for the Indian MMRCA program. It may be possible to go higher, but it isn’t ‘cleared’ to do, as much higher requires pressure suits anyway and I’m certain no-one is going to feel it necessary to do that envelope expansion work.

From reading only broadsheet reporting on the engagement, I think ‘the balloon’ was engaged at 58,000 feet from memory. I expect an AMRAAM or Sidewinder would have few issues with that extra climb, over and above such a service ceiling.

In any case SM-2 has a service ceiling of 82,000 feet, SM-6 over 110,000 feet and with a medium ranged AD system on the way (most of the popular MRAD systems have service ceiling’s in excess of 75,000 feet aka Patriot, SAMP-T etc) ADF has a few viable appearing options in-service today to deal with such a “threat” and much more capability due over the next few years.

 

[Going Boeing]

There are a number of articles that claim that an AIM-9 Sidewinder was used to shoot the balloon down.

Why US Shot Down Chinese Spy Balloon With Missile! | Tech ARP

 

[FormerDirtDart]

There are a number of articles that claim that an AIM-9 Sidewinder was used to shoot the balloon down.

Why US Shot Down Chinese Spy Balloon With Missile! | Tech ARP

That's probably because Gen. Glen VanHerck, commander of North American Aerospace Defense Command and U.S. Northern Command, stated they used an AIM-9. At least according to the US Department of Defense public release of the briefing he gave to the press.

Gen. Glen VanHerck, Commander, North American Aerospace Defense Command and United States

The commander of the North American Aerospace Defense Command and U.S. Northern Command held and off-camera, on-the-record briefing on the Chinese surveillance balloon recovery effort.

www.defense.gov

 

[Bob53]

Reverting the discussion back a few weeks re Australia and B21. There were some who suggested ( from memory) we might be better off with more P8s. I was reading the Drive this morning and linked through to an older article about some of the Potential capabilities of the P8. I’m not thinking bomb truck but with LRASM, possibly JASSM, AARGM-ER and MALD and swarming drone loads outs combined low operating cost, it seems to make more sense on acquiring more P8s than spending anything on B21 …..if that’s where we end up heading.

The Case For Stripping The P-8 Poseidon Down Into An RB-8 Multi-Role Arsenal Ship

A non-maritime patrol variant of the P-8 could provide the Air Force with a highly flexible platform for augmenting the bomber force and much more.

www.thedrive.com

Basically about $300m per airframe vs probable $1.5B and we already have the support infrastructure in place.

The article was from 2021. Have any of the missile integration’s progressed much since then?

 

[seaspear]

Wouldn't you be able to do the same with other retired airliners after assessing which model would could meet those goals and stripped of its commercial roles
Is It Possible to Convert the Boeing 747 Into a Bomber? - Owlcation

 

[Bob53]

Wouldn't you be able to do the same with other retired airliners after assessing which model would could meet those goals and stripped of its commercial roles
Is It Possible to Convert the Boeing 747 Into a Bomber? - Owlcation

But …the P8 is already integrated with all systems and comms gear. I’m not talking about turning them into a bomber. More that once some of (planned…I’m not sure if they are planned or just suggested) weapons integrations take place the P8 becomes even more of a multi role ASW platform. If Australia wants to be a porcupine then adding more P8s which is already in RAAF service, seems to be a far better and more cost effective option than just slinging weapons on another air frame or going with B21 (if that ever became an option) the informed people in the know on this forum are suggesting we are talking lifetime cost multiple billions per airframe Plus billions to introduce operationally.

More P8s could be possible with in 4-5 years…possibly earlier. B21 …what…. 2035?

 

[seaspear]

There are a few articles that suggest there may be a range of options with these airframes
Necro-Aeronautics: Raising Undead Aircraft for War - War on the Rocks
U.S. Air Force Considers Case For Remotely Piloted Aircraft | Defense News: Aviation International News (ainonline.com)
This 767 was converted into an air refueling aircraft
B767 to be converted into Multi Mission Tanker Transport aircraft by HAL and IAI | The Financial Express
Certainly China appears to have recycled old 1950s aircraft into drones
China shows off drones recycled from Soviet-era fighter jets (defensenews.com)

 

[Tbone]

Defeat China's Navy, Defeat China's War Plan - War on the Rocks

We are seeking to fill two positions on our editorial team: An editor/researcher and a membership editor. Apply by Oct. 2, 2022. Washington has already

warontherocks.com

I found this an interesting read.. and the use of bombers with cheap bombs to defeat chinas navy and ground assets.

is it possible for the RAAF to do the same? Ie do we need to purchase b21 or b1b to pick off the Chinese’s navy?

what platforms can raaf deliver the same effect?
It seems the low cost of life option

 

[swerve]

There are a few articles that suggest there may be a range of options with these airframes

This 767 was converted into an air refueling aircraft
B767 to be converted into Multi Mission Tanker Transport aircraft by HAL and IAI | The Financial Express

While there has been a conversion of a secondhand 767 to a tanker, it's not shown or mentioned in that article. It was done by IAI for Colombia, & delivered in 2010. That deal was done before the KC-46 was ordered by the USAF, which is significant.

Brazil was interested in a similar conversion of two 767s, but it was reported that Boeing was very obstructive (refusing to provide support of any kind to converted 767s) & was trying to sell the KC-46. In the end Brazil dropped the idea & made a deal with Airbus to convert a couple of used A330s. Israel was interested in buying & converting 767s for its own air force, but again, Boeing was uncooperative, & Israel ordered KC-46 last year.

Given Boeing's attitude to 767 tanker conversions other than the KC-46 & the history of Indian military procurement, I'll believe the IAF is getting used 767s converted into tankers by HAL & IAI when I see them delivered.

BTW, that Financial Express link throws up lots of pop-ups which slow my browser down to a crawl.