The range reduces the need for tanker support, the volume of weapons is quite a bit higher than Shornets and the production line is hot And churning out airframes as we speak. For the life of me I cannot understand why the USAF would cancel or reduce the order…that is a head scratcher when they go on an on about pacific distances and the age of the F15 fleets.From what I understand the new technology going into it and the new materials make it cheaper. However Frank Kendall, the SECAF wants the USAF to cancel the program. This looks like the same stupidity that happened with the F-22 in 2012. The USAF need the numbers to replace its old F-15C/D fleet and these can be built and entered into service quicker than the F-35. Now its about quantity because the USAF is short of modern capable fast jet aircraft.
The F-15EX Program Is In Trouble
The Air Force is looking to reduce the size of its F-15EX buy to the point that it is likely to be more trouble than it's worth.www.thedrive.com
I really like the aircraft and for nations like Australia or NZ it makes a great maritime strike capability.
Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates
Thanks….. I’ll change my tag line!… I understand what you’re saying that the time has past. I don’t think I was suggesting we actually buy them…just stating that even 20 years ago they seemed more suited to our requirements…. But I’m sure the decision was heavily influenced as you say by our existing fleet of f 18s.
Quad mount A2A missiles on each pylon. Enhanced fully integrated EW capabilities. F-15EX
The F-15EX wasn't on the market or even been suggested for the USAF when the F-18Fs were being sourced for the RAAF.
6th gen designs are years away and given the 5th gen design and development problems you can't wait another 20 years for any designs to enter LRIP. You and everyone else simply don't have the time. Now quantity is required far more than hitech advanced futuristic paper aircraft. The F-18F is short legged and everyone knows it. It can get away with it in the Mediterranean and probably the Atlantic, but not in the Pacific.
If something has been spoken about at length earlier I’m the thread the decent thing to do is let the poster know what page this was discussed on.. most mods would be able to provide this direction to users instead of discarding them and banning them due to commenting not in the same post about something relevant and timely to today’s defence.
Maybe a more educational approach to users who haven’t been across defence talk for long would be more successful then being flippant and heavy handed.
Maybe a more educational approach to users who haven’t been across defence talk for long would be more successful then being flippant and heavy handed.
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
Maybe a PM to one of the Mods might be a better option than airing it out on the open forum,
RAAF C-27J Spartans at work.
We don't hear much about these, but it is always good to see occasions when their capability is utilised.
Currently assisting with access in the Kimberly:
www.abc.net.au
And of course they were also used extensively during the bushfires:
www.australiandefence.com.au
MB
We don't hear much about these, but it is always good to see occasions when their capability is utilised.
Currently assisting with access in the Kimberly:
Military flies kids and teachers back to class in flood-hit Kimberley
The ADF has played a key role in getting the school year underway in the state's flood-ravaged north.
www.abc.net.au
Beginning of the end for Spartan? - Australian Defence Magazine
Does the shift in role for the Leonardo C-27J Spartans now mean the RAAF has an airlift capability it cannot take to war?
www.australiandefence.com.au
MB
This article provides some more argument for and against the F-15ex a consideration might be as a longer range strike aircraft carrying very large munitions not currently held by the R.A.A.F
F-15EX vs. F-35A | Air & Space Forces Magazine (airandspaceforces.com)
F-15EX vs. F-35A | Air & Space Forces Magazine (airandspaceforces.com)
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #8,849
Not really. Look back at the combat aircraft in the RAAF inventory in early 2003. It consisted of F/A-18 A/B Hornets, and F-111C/G's in a strike role. IIRC it was believed at the time that the F-111's could be kept in service until ~2020. However, by 2007 it was realized that the cpfh of the F-111 was getting too high, even more so when one also realizes that by the 2000's, the F-111 was no longer survivable in contested airspace and required fighter escort. So in 2007 the RAAF needed to order an essentially urgent replacement for the F-111, which could get brought into service as quickly as possible. The best option, for a number of reasons, was the F/A-18F SHornet.
For instance, the USN was willing to let the RAAF order 'jump' the order queue and take production slots which had been intended for existing USN orders. Also, whilst being different aircraft than the 'classic' Hornet, there was/is quite a bit of commonality between the two designs, enabling a more rapid transition training for aircrews.
Lastly, I believe that by the time when Australia realized an F-111 replacement was needed, the base F-15E was no longer in production (IIRC production ended in 2001) and by 2007, nation-specific variants to fill S. Korean, Singaporean and Israeli orders were in production. Boeing would likely have needed to develop an Australian version first, and then wait for production slots to open up.
This article from The Strategist suggests that the "Ghost Bat" may also be developed to replace the Super Hornet under project Air 6000 Phase 7
Towards a sixth-generation air combat capability for the RAAF | The Strategist (aspistrategist.org.au)
Towards a sixth-generation air combat capability for the RAAF | The Strategist (aspistrategist.org.au)
The USAF makes a big more sense, they are replacing older F-15's with newer F-15s, maintenance, support, training etc can all remain the same. Clearly the F-22 isn't replacing them and in fact the F-15 may replace some of the F-22's. But replacing old clapped out F-15's with new build F-15s is very simple and easy and allows the air force to remain the same size, be ready to fly hours and take some load off the F-35 production lines and spares.
The USAF is removing the conformal fuel tanks. They don't need the additional range. USAF doesn't think like RAAF or other air forces.
F-15E Strike Eagles Now Flying Without Conformal Fuel Tanks On Air Defense Missions
Some F-15E Strike Eagles have ditched their conformal fuel tanks as they take on more air-to-air missions in the absence of the F-15C.
www.thedrive.com
Which is also probably why the USN wasn't really interested in the conformal tanks on their Block III planes. They have other capabilities.
Block III Super hornet would be a significant upgrade. As @Takao points out ques for whole new platforms are quite long. But we could upgrade the Super hornets to Block III (or at least the cockpit) and the F-35 to TR3/Blk4. Acquire new weapons. Acquire more weapons. LRASM onto P8.F-35. JSM could be another one we look at with internal carriage in the F35, resulting in a clean long range profile..
I like the superhornets. We have growler capability, no one else even really plays in that space. We are lock step with the USN which is more relevant for Australia. It was an easy and quick transition from the Hornet. Its is a cheap and easy aircraft to work on and fly. The USN is going to fly it for decades and is still taking deliveries willingly. The BlkIII cockpit and networks and stealth improvements would make it a very useful aircraft going into the future. It is still one of the most stealthiest 4.5 gen aircraft.
I dunno.. Super Hornet can carry more missiles than the F-15EX (12 vs 14 - AFAIK) and if we are talking about EW, fairly sure the growler is pretty strong in that area. I don't see it as a poor mans cousin to the F-15EX, just different. The F-15EX just reminds everyone that the Superhornets should probably go through a blkIII upgrade (atleast cockpit, networking, stealth improvements, IRST thingy, and those conformal tanks make it look thic!).
I don't see a picture like this and see the Super hornets key weakness is its lack of missile carriage. What the hell are we going up against? The aliens from Independence day?
Takao
The Bunker Group
Firstly, @Bob53 let me publicly apologise. I'm sorry, that comment was not directed at you in the slightest. It was aimed at some of the people and organisations held up as exemplar strategists on social and normal media, but are actually really poor thinkers. It was not intended to refer to you; I allowed my sarcasm to be unaimed. Sorry.
Secondly, generally speaking, you are correct. FSP20 shows that, the E-7 and KC-30 replacements call for additional airframes. The airlift and battlefield awareness of both (beyond their purely Air Force roles) really to make them truly Joint assets. For the 5 Sqn fast jet force we have now, you can easily argue that both fleets should be larger.
Speaking of 'experts', hello ASPI....
But, seriously, this is 100% on point. Instead of focusing on buying more F-35s, what is the effect that AIR 6000-7 is meant to provide. Shifting those funds to MQ-28 may be a better choice, if only because it enhances the existing fleet. Relying on a promise (a tenuous one at best - there is a difference between those who approve the plan and AFHQ...) from 8+ years ago to justify buying a new capability is...sub-optimal. Note what wasn't available then but is now...
The NGAD design system is particularly relevent to AI technology. To start with the risks associated with designing unmanned systems is significantly lower than manned systems. You can also design mission specific aircraft. No longer will you need to concern yourself with somehow utilising aircraft that weren't designed for a particular mission.
Marry this concept with 3d printing manufacturing and you could basically build a mix and match collection of UAVs ideally suited to Australian requirements. The ability to locally manufacture these aircraft could almost be as valuable as the aircraft themselves.
More grants to Boeing for Ghost Bat jet manufacture - Australian Manufacturing Forum
$58.6 million in grants for nine projects under the defence industry priority for the Modern Manufacturing Initiative have been announced which will further support Boeing Australia’s manufacture of its MQ-28A Ghost Bat autonomous jet aircraft, formerly known as Loyal Wingman. Campaigning in...
www.aumanufacturing.com.au
Rhinos have had fully integrated IDECM since the Block II was rolled out. It’s been further advanced since then with SCS upgrades. I see little likelihood there is much in the way of differences between these 2 Boeing platforms on that front.
More AMRAAM’s equals more survivability? Possibly more persistence but as always there are tradeoffs and the difference is 6 missiles given Super Hornets carry dual-rail launchers.
In any case, marketing shots of maximum theoretical load-outs is hardly a basis for considering a capability. What are the drag implications of carrying 20+ missiles on quad-rails for example? Boeing won’t talk about it, but they have to exist.
Which I acknowledged and specifically referred to the comparison RAAF conducted which was then spec F-15E v Super Hornet Block II.
RAAF has operated Rhinos just fine in that environment for 13 years. The range of any tactical fighter isn’t going to give many people a justification to replace an excellent fleet of in-service fighters with an older design whose sole capability advantages are a fraction more range and weapons.
Of course we have time. USN has an assured upgrade path for the Rhino and Growler, both of which it will operate for decades more, most likely as will RAAF and Kuwait (Rhinos only).
Additionally we will be in all likelihood be acquiring more JSF before anything else.
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Mate …no need to apologise at all. I was not offended in anyway. I took it as a term of endearment. I’m busy playing with my new magnets so took me a while to get back here!
buffy9
Well-Known Member
Just out of curiosity, what would you argue is best to achieve the effect? Thinking about the amount of auxiliaries we have and the inability to buy more quickly, it may be worth turning those funds to upgrades for the current fighter fleet (Blk IV and Blk III respectively) and trying to jump onto the AIM-120D3 or AIM-260 program to grow missile stocks. This assuming they don't already exist.
Combined with hardened basing, the qualitative improvements could allow RAAF to stay in action (combat) for a while longer. Still not any great length of time, but arguably enough to have a greater effect overall.
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Noticed this article in APDR re the latest Growler upgrade.
asiapacificdefencereporter.com
This is serious coin.
Defence web site.
More coin.
Looks like this plane will definitely be around till the early 2030's.
As to the Super Hornets we will get some clarity next month.
Cheers S
Australia to upgrade Growler electronic warfare planes - APDR
The Australian government announced it will upgrade the Royal Australian Airforce’s fleet of electronic aircraft and associated ranges, strengthening the nation’s electronic attack capability.
asiapacificdefencereporter.com
This is serious coin.
Defence web site.
More coin.
Looks like this plane will definitely be around till the early 2030's.
As to the Super Hornets we will get some clarity next month.
Cheers S
I read this and wondered why this sale was prohibited to Australia its from last year of course
Text - S.J.Res.53 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): A joint resolution providing for congressional disapproval of the proposed foreign military sale to the Government of Australia of certain defense articles and services. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress
Text - S.J.Res.53 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): A joint resolution providing for congressional disapproval of the proposed foreign military sale to the Government of Australia of certain defense articles and services. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
More grunt for Growlers | Defence
Well the RAAF seem to think the approval went through as of 6 Feb 2023, they are planning for longer range and more advanced Anti-Radiation Missiles. Any knock back of the AGM-88 to Australia would have caused a major ruckus and we would know about it.