"Aircraft from the Royal Australian Air Force and United States Marine Corps participate in an Elephant Walk on the RAAF Base Tindal flight line for Exercise Pitch Black 2022." Image Source : ADF Image Library
Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates
I keep thinking the F35 is a new capability, but this pic certainly highlights the fact that we have moved on from the days of the Classic Hornet.
Most impressive
Cheers S
Where I live I hear/see the F-35s quite a bit now, but yes sometimes it still feels like they're a new thing and almost expecting to see a classic hornet zipping by. I think seeing the F-35s being used for the PR stuff (i.e. Formula 1 flyby/demo) and similar will probably change that perception.
I do wonder how the delivery rate compares to previous front-line aircraft (i.e. Supers, Classics, F-111s), as it feels like it has been quite quick.
For the RAAF it appears a successful project to date.
Credit to all those involved.
Cheers S
The air force seems to mostly get its projects through mostly on time and on budget. Unlike the navy which feels like it just lurches from one bungled project to another. I suspect it has everything to do with the RAAF willingness to buy directly from overseas suppliers rather than building things in Australia.
AndyinOz
Member
From memory the Classic Hornets with the exception of the first couple were at least assembled in Australia I suppose it is not exactly building them as you might the Hobart's or Collins maybe more like assembling a Meccano set or a flat pack kitchen but still we did it.
Lolcake
Active Member
Don't just paste paywall articles lock stock. Summary only. With your own views on the topic, otherwise its spam.
Exclusive piece from the Australian. Enjoy
Please do not cut and paste paywall stories with "enjoy" comments. Selectively quote and provide actual feedback or views. Otherwise it will be identified as spam and removed and further action will be taken.Royal Australian Air Force F-35A Lightning ll aircraft. Picture: Defence Imagery / Annika Smit
Australia is looking to push ahead with the expansion of its F-35 stealth fighter fleet and is considering buying US B-21 bombers to give the nation a new long-range strike capability, in a strategic review framed around the regional fallout from a Chinese invasion of Taiwan.
- EXCLUSIVE
BEN PACKHAM- 10:00PM AUGUST 26,
The Albanese government is also yet to lock in the former Morrison government’s decision to buy US Black Hawk helicopters, and could overturn the decision in favour of a next-generation rotary capability.
Defence Minister Richard Marles said the RAAF’s F-35As had proven themselves “indispensable”, and the government’s Defence Strategic Review would decide whether to lift Australia’s joint strike fighter order from 72 to 100 aircraft.
“The question about our fighter capability will form part of the strategic review that we are undertaking,” he said en route to the Northern Territory for the air force’s biggest drill, Exercise Pitch Black.
“Having a fifth-generation fighter capability is critically important – they can just do things the Super Hornets can’t. It is an utterly essential component to our air force and the potency of our defence force.”
Days after a senior American defence chief confirmed the US would consider selling its in-development B-21 bomber to Australia, Mr Marles said the stealth aircraft were also being examined to give the ADF the ability to hold adversaries at bay over long distances.
The capability would be examined as the review considered the wider purpose of the Defence Force, and what it needed to do, Mr Marles said.
The review, being undertaken by former defence minister Stephen Smith and former ADF chief Angus Houston, is running against a backdrop of Chinese aggression towards Taiwan that will form the central scenario for the force posture plans developed under the process. A conflict over Taiwan is being examined by the reviewers as the most likely potential flashpoint for a war between China, with the review looking at how Australia can defend its interests and be taken seriously as a military power.
Mr Marles’ trip to Darwin comes ahead of an official trip to the UK, Germany and France to meet his ministerial counterparts, and inspect Britain’s frigate and submarine building operations.
The US State Department on Thursday approved the sale of 40 Black Hawks to Australia for $2.8bn, to replace the ADF’s trouble-prone MRH-90 Taipans as the army’s workhorse helicopter.
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I imagine some of our neighbours wouldn’t be thrilled if Australia bought the B-21
I remember they weren’t happy with us owning the F-111 and the B-21s capability would be orders of magnitude beyond that.
if Australia were to go ahead with the B-21 there would need to be lots of diplomatic work done. In my opinion it would effectively indicate that Australia is willing to go it alone if necessary.
it would also give China an opportunity to caste doubt on Australia’s regional intentions perhaps even driving a few of those countries into the Chinese camp.
I remember they weren’t happy with us owning the F-111 and the B-21s capability would be orders of magnitude beyond that.
if Australia were to go ahead with the B-21 there would need to be lots of diplomatic work done. In my opinion it would effectively indicate that Australia is willing to go it alone if necessary.
it would also give China an opportunity to caste doubt on Australia’s regional intentions perhaps even driving a few of those countries into the Chinese camp.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
An Australian B-21 acquisition is extremely unlikely but USAF basing of their future in Australia might be likely. This is would likely be seen as a positive given Chinese encroachment into several countries contested areas in the SCS along with the constant threatening of Taiwan.
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
They aren't overly thrilled about the SSNs as it is, throw in the B-21s on top of that.
The FVL project is not going to deliver Australia an aircraft before 2035 and that is the problem with both the B-21 and FVL they are in a similar place to where we were in 2002-03 with the F-35 and Tiger/MRH-90, immature programs that have not delivered a single aircraft to a frontline Sqn. Would you in all reality trust the US Army on a next gen Rotorcraft project, their record in introducing all new designs of just about anything in the last few decades is not good but especially Rotocraft. Stick with the Blackhawks at this stage and wait for FVL to mature.Exclusive piece from the Australian. Enjoy
More firepower on Australian Defence Force shopping list
Australia is looking to push ahead with the expansion of its F-35 stealth fighter fleet and is considering buying US B-21 bombers to give the nation a new long-range strike capability, in a strategic review framed around the regional fallout from a Chinese invasion of Taiwan.
- EXCLUSIVE
BEN PACKHAM- 10:00PM AUGUST 26,
The Albanese government is also yet to lock in the former Morrison government’s decision to buy US Black Hawk helicopters, and could overturn the decision in favour of a next-generation rotary capability.
Defence Minister Richard Marles said the RAAF’s F-35As had proven themselves “indispensable”, and the government’s Defence Strategic Review would decide whether to lift Australia’s joint strike fighter order from 72 to 100 aircraft.
“The question about our fighter capability will form part of the strategic review that we are undertaking,” he said en route to the Northern Territory for the air force’s biggest drill, Exercise Pitch Black.
Mr Marles’ trip to Darwin comes ahead of an official trip to the UK, Germany and France to meet his ministerial counterparts, and inspect Britain’s frigate and submarine building operations.
The US State Department on Thursday approved the sale of 40 Black Hawks to Australia for $2.8bn, to replace the ADF’s trouble-prone MRH-90 Taipans as the army’s workhorse helicopter.
US approves sale of Black Hawk military helicopters to Australia
The US State Department has approved the sale of military helicopters and equipment worth $2.8 billion to Australia. It will replace older ... more
But the decision comes as the US Army considers replacing its own Black Hawks with a yet-to-be-designed rotary aircraft, developed specifically for Indo-Pacific operations, that will be faster and have a longer better range.
Mr Marles said that former defence minister Peter Dutton’s announcement last December that Australia would buy new Black Hawks was a “pretty fuzzy commitment”.
He said the tried and tested utility helicopter was “clearly” under consideration, but the purchase was not a done deal.
“A process is under way that is evaluating that capability in terms of what we have now and what we need in the future. I’m not going to pre-empt it now,” Mr Marles said.
At Pitch Black, Mr Marles met Australian and international participants and inspected Australian F-35s, German Eurofighters, US F15Es, and French Rafales.
When asked during a visit to Canberra this week whether the US would consider selling B-21s to Australia, Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall said his country “would be willing to talk to Australia about anything that there was an interest in from the Australian perspective that we could help them with”.
Mr Marles confirmed his department was re-examining whether to overturn the lease of the Port of Darwin to Chinese company Landbridge, after a Coalition review that Labor had not seen.
“We want to understand what risk is given rise to by virtue of the current set of circumstances and on the basis of that will then make our decision,” he said
The Chinese are building the equivalent of the French Navy every year (including SSNs)! They are also working on their own long range strategic bomber, the H-20. I’m not sure why this is not alarming to the “neighbours”. Meanwhile, Australia is somehow portrayed as upsetting the strategic balance. What a joke!
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The moderators here must be having a hard time adjudicating what is fantasy now , but Australia is just around the two percent of GDP on defence
Australia Military Spending/Defense Budget 1960-2022 | MacroTrends
This may be able to be sustained at this range but should Japan a country closer to this hemisphere not increase it own share
Japan’s Defense Budget: Double or Nothing? – The Diplomat
sorry to veer off topic but moderators in the past have often asked on how these projects are to be funded
Australia Military Spending/Defense Budget 1960-2022 | MacroTrends
This may be able to be sustained at this range but should Japan a country closer to this hemisphere not increase it own share
Japan’s Defense Budget: Double or Nothing? – The Diplomat
sorry to veer off topic but moderators in the past have often asked on how these projects are to be funded
There's billions of dollars in tax cuts coming soon. If things are as grave, security wise, as they are presented, perhaps that funding could go else where.
As a percentage of GDP the level of spending was much higher in the 1960s. Obviously this was the time of the Cold War and Vietnam. Many would argue that the treat level to Australia is much higher now than it was back then. It would not surprise me if Australia hit 1960 levels of spending by the 2030.
Would the potential purchase of an aircraft and its abilities like the B-21 address some of the issues faced with the delay in acquiring submarines and their abilities ?I don't suggest a long range stealth bomber can do everything a nuclear submarine can ,but may have a deterrent factor that achieves similar results ,it may negate having to consider a new class of submarine prior to the introduced nuclear class although 500 million a plane is very expensive what would several conventional submarines cost? and the recruiting and training numbers of flight crew for a few bombers should be easier to address than for submarines? plus much of the logistical support for this type of aircraft is already present for other aircraft.
I wonder how many additional A330 MRTT and P-8 Poseidon aircraft could we purchase for the cost of a B-21.
Sure it's not quite apples for apples, but they are both in service and currently in production.
This combination offer a range of roles from long range strike, surveillance ,ASW, logistics and also add to the broader RAAF Fleet.
Both are great long range assets providing options to our government and a hindrance to a government seeking to do us harm.
A B-21 would no doubt be an impressive aircraft for it's intended niche, but I cannot see it being an appropriate use of funds for a defence force of our size.
More fantasy than reality I'd suggest.
Keep it simple and add to what we have.
Cheers S
Lucky its only a thought bubble atm.
I just hope other projects don't get shelved because of it...like a blakhawk buy for example....
I just hope other projects don't get shelved because of it...like a blakhawk buy for example....
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
I would guess one of each would be about the same cost as one B-21. The cost of operation for the latter would be ugly. No worries though, the B-21 will be strictly a USAF affair.
Lolcake
Active Member
I honestly dont see how the P-8s could operate in a high intensity theatre. Obviously the cost in prohibitive. But the times have changed.
Simple answer......It won't.
Its not a B-21
Then again we are not a super power able to afford such exotic platforms.
What it can do like the B-21 is deliver ordnance at distance which is further increased with in flight refueling.
Its limitation is that some fights are out of its league, yet then again many others are not.
Its this later category that needs to be explored and exploited.
The challenge of distance is everything for our part of the world.
Both offence and defence
Cheers S