Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Patriot is an old system now and I remember reading somewhere recently that it required replacement. Can't remember the source.
Medium Extended Air Defense System (MEADS) is the Patriot replacement (using the same latest and greatest PAC-3 MSE missile) and a contract is expected in the third quarter of 2020 for the Germans. MEADS is expected to provide a 360° homeland and battlefield intercept capability against airborne threats, including tactical ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, unmanned aerial vehicles, and aircraft.

A typical system comprises the PAC-3 MSE interceptor missile, the MEADS surveillance radar, the MEADS X-Band multifunctional fire-control radar (MFCR), the MEADS launcher, and a tactical operations centre. As noted in Jane's Land Warfare Platforms: Artillery & Air Defence, the MEADS kill zone extends to a range of 35 km and to an altitude of 118,110 ft. See: TLVS JV expecting German MEADS contract in 2020 | Jane's 360

The US Army is nearing a decision on who will build its Lower-Tier Air-and-Missile Defense Sensor, or LTAMDS, which will provide the sensing capability for the future Integrated Air-and-Missile Defense System the service is developing. The radar is part of a new Army Missile Defence system that will replace the Army’s Raytheon-made Patriot system. Raytheon, Northrop Grumman and a Lockheed Martin-Elta Systems team all brought radars to the White Sands sense-off and the winner will build six prototypes by the end of FY22.
 
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Boagrius

Well-Known Member
MEADS is the replacement (using the same PAC-3 MSE missile) and a contract is expected in the third quarter of 2020 for the Germans. MEADS is expected to provide a 360° homeland and battlefield intercept capability against airborne threats, including tactical ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, unmanned aerial vehicles, and aircraft.

A typical system comprises the PAC-3 MSE interceptor missile, the MEADS surveillance radar, the MEADS X-Band multifunctional fire-control radar (MFCR), the MEADS launcher, and a tactical operations centre. As noted in Jane's Land Warfare Platforms: Artillery & Air Defence, the MEADS kill zone extends to a range of 35 km and to an altitude of 118,110 ft. See: TLVS JV expecting German MEADS contract in 2020 | Jane's 360
Is that more of a European system though? I was under the impression the US had opted out and elected to pair their GaN AESA technology with existing Patriot launchers. In a way this makes sense to me as it allows them to hold on to the longer ranged PAC2 missiles.
 

Boagrius

Well-Known Member
Yes, the radar is European (see: MEADS Multifunction Fire Radar proves capabilities in performance tests - MBDA) but using a US PAC-3 MSE missile. The US is not going to get its act together till after FY22.
Gotcha. Yes the US situation is odd in that their GBAD capability stands in stark contrast to their more layered naval surface to air arsenal. One would think that a "mobile Aegis Ashore" system mounting something akin to a ~4cell Mk41 VLS on an appropriate truck chassis and pairing it with the appropriate sensors would be a simple step in the right direction going forward. Alas I am fantasizing and don't want to derail the thread ;-)
 

buffy9

Well-Known Member

A great article on the Loyal Wingman ATS for anyone who is interested. It doesn't go in depth as to specifics but notes a range of characteristics (some production details, a modular nose, etc).

A very rough estimation is given, comparing it to the Valkyrie in terms of capability and cost. The author compares its price to that of a TLAM, though it is very rough.

Flight tests are set to occur before the Avalon Air show (Feb 2021)with any RAAF decisions or interest to likely grow following this. Budget tightness aside, they are definitely attempting to play the cost card.
 
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cdxbow

Well-Known Member

A great article on the Loyal Wingman ATS for anyone who is interested. It doesn't go in depth as to specifics but notes a range of characteristics (some production details, a modular nose, etc).

A very rough estimation is given, comparing it to the Valkyrie in terms of capability and cost. The author compares its price to thst of a TLAM, though it is very rough.

Flight tests are set to occur before the Avalon Air show (Feb 2021)with any RAAF decisions or interest to likely grow following this. Budget tightness aside, they are definitely attempting to play the cost card.
One of the key aspects of it seems to be it's autonomy and AI, which is very different to current use of UAV's. If it's configured without weapons then I don't see to many problems with this other than sorting out the technical aspects. If it's weaponised it does raise potentially a few significant issues regarding human control and ethics eg should a robot ever be allowed to kill autonomously? I note the project has kept pretty quiet about roles other than the 'Loyal Wingman' concept and about carrying of weapons.
 

76mmGuns

Active Member

Range seems a little short if they were going to have it "wingman" with some of the slower but longer range planes.
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
Australian-designed AI attack drone prototype unveiled by Boeing ahead of mass production - ABC News. A short update on loyal wingman.
I would assume that these drones must be as stealthy (RCS) as anF35?
Cruise speed must be up there to?
Sooo many questions about these.
I have a feeling that a lot of the capabilities of this aircraft will stay out of the public domain for some time. Not only info about things like payload, performance and whether or not it will be armed but the whole ethical issue surrounding AI could yet end up being a political hot potato.
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
Range seems a little short if they were going to have it "wingman" with some of the slower but longer range planes.
There are some sources claiming a range of 3700 kilometres. If you sent it on a one-way mission it could reach parts of the South China Sea. Australian Strategic Policy Institute senior defence analyst Malcolm Davis has also speculated that larger versions of the drone could be built in the future.

For those with out a subscription to the Australian

Australian fighter pilots get a Boeing drone of their own

BEN PACKHAM
FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND DEFENCE CORRESPONDENT
@bennpackham

New Australian-made combat drones will be able to operate in teams of 16 or more with a single manned fighter jet, offering cutting-edge capabilities to the RAAF and friendly nations.

The first of the semi-autonomous Loyal Wingman drone was unveiled by Boeing Australia on Tuesday, as part of a broader push by Western nations to counter growing Chinese investment in unmanned fighter platforms.

The Loyal Wingman prototype is the first military aircraft to be designed and built in Australia for 50 years.

The national security significance of the project was underlined by Scott Morrison, who said it would enable Australia to “protect our nation and our allies”. “It means Australia can sharpen its edge and prepare for the future,” the Prime Minister said.

The stealthy, 11.7m-long aircraft is due to undergo initial flight tests later this year, and be ready for production in the mid-2020s.

The relatively cheap drones will be able to fly ahead and engage the enemy, conduct electronic warfare or act as decoys to draw fire from manned aircraft, acting as a “force multiplier” for more expensive platforms such as the $115m Joint Strike Fighter.

They will be able to work with JSFs, Super Hornets, Growler electronic warfare jets and Wedgetail early warning and control aircraft.

“It’s designed to be a team of typically between two and four per (manned) aircraft … but also up to 16 or more, depending on the mission,” Boeing Australia’s Shane Arnott said.

The drone is said to have a range of 3700km — well above that of the JSF, which can only fly about 2000km without refuelling.

Defence has been reluctant to reveal the sorts of armaments or payloads the drones will carry, or the types of combat missions they will fulfil. But the head of air force capability, Air Vice-Marshal Catherine Roberts, said: “It is an air combat capability that we are looking at here.”

The drones will be built on automated production lines with advanced composite materials, allowing a much more rapid development cycle, Air Vice-Marshal Roberts said. “The key moving forward … is that very expensive and exquisite platforms take a long time to develop and they don't necessarily deal with the rapid change of threats.

“And what we are looking at here is to try and get ahead of the game in terms of having a capability that can be produced quickly and really rapidly adjust to the threats.”

The Morrison government has invested $40m in the development of the aircraft, which will have significant export potential.

The US and Britain were both taking a close interest in the development of the aircraft.

US Studies Centre research fellow Brendan Thomas-Noone said the Loyal Wingman offered smaller, hi-tech air forces like Australia’s the ability to add greater depth at relatively low cost. “You can put more bombs on them or add electronic warfare suites that can add to deception,” he said.

“There are all sorts of things the system can allow even one or two fighters to do. It just multiplies their ability to operate.”

Australian Strategic Policy Institute senior defence analyst Malcolm Davis said the drone was “a pretty impressive piece of hardware”, and predicted it could evolve into a larger aircraft in the future with the ability to fly further and carry greater payloads.
 

meatshield

Active Member
Greetings
While scanning a few websites this morning I came across the below article about the P8. I'm posting it as I've never seen or read anything before about this radar and thought the group might find it interesting.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Greetings
While scanning a few websites this morning I came across the below article about the P8. I'm posting it as I've never seen or read anything before about this radar and thought the group might find it interesting.
The Advanced Airborne Sensor is something that a few of us have been aware of for a few years, and here is a story about it from 2014. That site is also fairly good for info about the Poseidon generally.

In a nutshell though, the Advanced Airborne Sensor is (or at least seems to be) a development from the APS-149 Littoral Surveillance Radar System, which was fielded on some US P-3 Orions as part of a black programme, that for a long time had denied the existence of the APS-149 AESA radar.
 

meatshield

Active Member
The Advanced Airborne Sensor is something that a few of us have been aware of for a few years, and here is a story about it from 2014. That site is also fairly good for info about the Poseidon generally.

In a nutshell though, the Advanced Airborne Sensor is (or at least seems to be) a development from the APS-149 Littoral Surveillance Radar System, which was fielded on some US P-3 Orions as part of a black programme, that for a long time had denied the existence of the APS-149 AESA radar.
That is a very interesting read. Thanks for posting
 

Boagrius

Well-Known Member
I have long wondered how the USN etc planned on providing targeting data for long range AShMs like LRASM. Even if you assume a high subsonic airspeed for the weapon, you could still be looking at a flight time north of 20mins to reach a target that is over 250nm away. Presumably it would need to be fed targeting updates to ensure it "found" the (potentially moving) target. I imagine a system like this that is (maybe) equal parts sensor and standoff jammer could be extremely helpful - both in suppressing target radars and in turn long range SAM (eg. HHQ-9) and sending the missile to the right place.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro

John Newman

The Bunker Group
Also of interest is that the USN has issued an RFI for the integration of the LRASM, SDB II, & other stores onto the P-8A. This will be quite beneficial both to the RAAF & RNZAF.

I don't think it will be just LRASM that ends up integrated onto P-8A (as a Harpoon replacement) for anti-shipping roles, lets not forget JSM. Lets not forget that Norway (the developer of JSM) is also going to be a P-8A operator, JSM will also end up on Norway's F-35A fleet as well (and probably on the RAAFs fleet of F-35A and Super Hornets).

I can well imagine that in the not too distant future the RAAF (and RAN) will have a number of options in regard to AShM.

I can easily see a mix of lighter shorter range and heavier longer range AShM weapons, why expend an expensive LRASM on a lighter target when a JSM will do the job?
 

John Newman

The Bunker Group
Bit of clarification from Defence on the retiring Classic Hornet fleet and how many will be kept for museums:


The relevant paragraph:

However, Defence has confirmed that eight aircraft will be retained for heritage purposes, including six single-seat F/A-18A Hornets (A21-22, -23, -29, -32, -40, -43) and two twin-seat F/A-18Bs (A21-101 and -103).

There is also an update on the recently retired PC-9A fleet too:

Defence says that nine PC-9/As have been retained for heritage purposes in Australia; for display at the RAAF Museum Point Cook (A23-001), RAAF Base Pearce (A23-009), Fighter World at Williamtown (A23-020), RAAF Base Townsville (A23-022), the Fleet Air Arm Museum at Nowra (A23-028), two for display at RAAF Base East Sale (A23-030 and -036) and one at RAAF Base Wagga Wagga (A23-031). One aircraft reserved for heritage purposes (A23-032) will be displayed at a ‘RAAF Heritage’ location yet to be announced.


And also some news for the Army's Blackhawk fleet:

Five of the Army’s 34 surviving Black Hawk helicopters have also been earmarked for preservation and will be allocated to the Australian War Memorial, Australian Army Flying Museum at Oakey, RAAF Museum Point Cook and the RAAF Aviation Heritage Centre at Amberley.

All in all a pretty good result, eight Classic Hornets, nine PC-9A and five Blackhawk will end up in Australian aviation Museums, and there is a reasonable chance that we will probably end up seeing some other PC-9A end up in the warbird fleets across the country and maybe some of the retired Blackhawk will end up with another life here in Oz too.

Cheers,
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
The latest update from ADF-Serials:


Reported as at 25 April 2020 (Anzac Day), the number of F-35A for the RAAF has now reached 26 completed airframes, of the 15 airframes from LRIP-12 due for completion this year, eight completed, and seven to go before years end.

All appears to be tracking along nicely!

Cheers,
I notice the first two F-35s haven't been assigned to 2 OCU or 3 SDN. Last I heard the earlier F-35s required some modifications to bring them to the standard of the later versions. I wonder what will happen with them.
 
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