Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

[Todjaeger]

He is a child. You can transpose this argument across to the 5.56mm v 7.62mm ammunition debate. His POV is that because 7.62mm has some better ballistic characteristics in some parts of the energy chart, the 5.56mm round is inferior and therefore it's users will lose in combat.

To draw such a conclusion you have to rely on an astonishingly vast range of assumptions with everything 'being equal' except the characteristics you want to use to support your argument...

Get into the real world Jensen and forget this APA inspired lunacy. The real world isn't equal.

China doesn't fly as many tankers as the US does. It doesn't have as many AWACS as the US does. It's radars are different, it's missiles are different and it's tactics and doctrine are different.

You cannot "assume" everything is equal because it isn't and therefore your simplistic assumptions fall over.

Why the RAAF bothers arguing with this idiot I'll never understand. Run with the corporate line and be done with it. The F-35 could shoot down 100 PAK-FA's / J-20's tomorrow in nothing but 1 v 1 aerial engagements and all this actual combat experience still wouldn't convince these idiots otherwise.

How does this suggestion for convincing the idiots sound?

Allow someone like Goon, Kopp, Jensen, etc. al. to be trained as a WSO on Su-30MK or some sort, and allow them to pick a volunteer they are comfortable with to be the combat pilot. Offer a prize purse of $250 mil. if they win.

Arrange for a production F-35A and volunteer RAAF fighter pilot, who will be awarded a combat 'kill' if he wins.

Each air crew is allowed to choose their own preferred fuel and weapon loadout.

The rules of the engagement will be for the respective aircraft and crews to engage in Dissimilar Air Combat with live munitions in a 500 km x 500 km 'box' over Woomera, without any support from other aircraft or ground stations. The first aircraft/crew to come down, be it due to low fuel or having been shot down, is the loser.

Have orbiting aircraft observe the 'death match' as well as streaming A/V feeds from both aircraft, all of which gets broadcast live on a subscription/pay-per-view channel.

Then watch and wait. And sell popcorn.

 

[gf0012-aust]

He is a child. You can transpose this argument across to the 5.56mm v 7.62mm ammunition debate. His POV is that because 7.62mm has some better ballistic characteristics in some parts of the energy chart, the 5.56mm round is inferior and therefore it's users will lose in combat.

Its even more damning when you consider the fact that all he has to do is speak to the kinetic/ballistics shop in DSTO - and they have small arms uniforms attached to that shop

 

[ngatimozart]

How does this suggestion for convincing the idiots sound?

Allow someone like Goon, Kopp, Jensen, etc. al. to be trained as a WSO on Su-30MK or some sort, and allow them to pick a volunteer they are comfortable with to be the combat pilot. Offer a prize purse of $250 mil. if they win.

Arrange for a production F-35A and volunteer RAAF fighter pilot, who will be awarded a combat 'kill' if he wins.

Each air crew is allowed to choose their own preferred fuel and weapon loadout.

The rules of the engagement will be for the respective aircraft and crews to engage in Dissimilar Air Combat with live munitions in a 500 km x 500 km 'box' over Woomera, without any support from other aircraft or ground stations. The first aircraft/crew to come down, be it due to low fuel or having been shot down, is the loser.

Have orbiting aircraft observe the 'death match' as well as streaming A/V feeds from both aircraft, all of which gets broadcast live on a subscription/pay-per-view channel.

Then watch and wait. And sell popcorn.

Like button please.

 

[ozrock62]

Not sure if anyone has posted yet but photo of first RAAF F-35 AU-1 heading for a paint job in Australian Aviation magazine.

 

[John Newman]

Not sure if anyone has posted yet but photo of first RAAF F-35 AU-1 heading for a paint job in Australian Aviation magazine.

Here it is:

RAAF F-35A AU-1 revealed | Australian Aviation


One down and 71 to go! (plus another 28, hopefully, a little bit later on)

 

[ADMk2]

How does this suggestion for convincing the idiots sound?

Allow someone like Goon, Kopp, Jensen, etc. al. to be trained as a WSO on Su-30MK or some sort, and allow them to pick a volunteer they are comfortable with to be the combat pilot. Offer a prize purse of $250 mil. if they win.

Arrange for a production F-35A and volunteer RAAF fighter pilot, who will be awarded a combat 'kill' if he wins.

Each air crew is allowed to choose their own preferred fuel and weapon loadout.

The rules of the engagement will be for the respective aircraft and crews to engage in Dissimilar Air Combat with live munitions in a 500 km x 500 km 'box' over Woomera, without any support from other aircraft or ground stations. The first aircraft/crew to come down, be it due to low fuel or having been shot down, is the loser.

Have orbiting aircraft observe the 'death match' as well as streaming A/V feeds from both aircraft, all of which gets broadcast live on a subscription/pay-per-view channel.

Then watch and wait. And sell popcorn.

Sounds fine to me...

 

[ADMk2]

Here it is:

RAAF F-35A AU-1 revealed | Australian Aviation


One down and 71 to go! (plus another 28, hopefully, a little bit later on)

Thank you for that. I'm going to go email those to Jensen, Goon, Kopp, Chris Mills and ELP with my warmest regards...

 

[t68]

Thank you for that. I'm going to go email those to Jensen, Goon, Kopp, Chris Mills and ELP with my warmest regards...

Should wait till skippy is on the side!!

 

[Volkodav]

Its even more damning when you consider the fact that all he has to do is speak to the kinetic/ballistics shop in DSTO - and they have small arms uniforms attached to that shop

He is the epitemy of never letting facts interfere with ideology. This is what he believes, his truth, his faith and nothing will divert him, especially not facts, or data from experts.

IMO Australia has suffered far too much from this in recent decades and we need to keep ideological types like him out of positions of power.

 

[gf0012-aust]

He is the epitemy of never letting facts interfere with ideology. This is what he believes, his truth, his faith and nothing will divert him, especially not facts, or data from experts.

IMO Australia has suffered far too much from this in recent decades and we need to keep ideological types like him out of positions of power.

Well, the last 5-6 years of that mobs sideshow have had some positive results. Both sides of Govt have worked out that they are idealogues and have basically sidelined them as much as poss - I note the tolerance and appretite for these fools on both sides of Govt turned off once they got into the job and were exposed to the classified briefs

Jensen will never get into a position of direct influence. Even the curr Govt had not canned the Science rep I serious;y doubt that he would have got the gong.

APA and co. burnt their "goodwill" long ago - and all through their own shrilling

The sad thing is that they still think that they are relevant and think that when they get trotted out by the press is because they're newsworthy. Although I do think that Kopp has worked this out which is why he is decidedly less visible

 

[Bonza]

How does this suggestion for convincing the idiots sound?

Allow someone like Goon, Kopp, Jensen, etc. al. to be trained as a WSO on Su-30MK or some sort, and allow them to pick a volunteer they are comfortable with to be the combat pilot. Offer a prize purse of $250 mil. if they win.

Arrange for a production F-35A and volunteer RAAF fighter pilot, who will be awarded a combat 'kill' if he wins.

Each air crew is allowed to choose their own preferred fuel and weapon loadout.

The rules of the engagement will be for the respective aircraft and crews to engage in Dissimilar Air Combat with live munitions in a 500 km x 500 km 'box' over Woomera, without any support from other aircraft or ground stations. The first aircraft/crew to come down, be it due to low fuel or having been shot down, is the loser.

Have orbiting aircraft observe the 'death match' as well as streaming A/V feeds from both aircraft, all of which gets broadcast live on a subscription/pay-per-view channel.

Then watch and wait. And sell popcorn.

I don't think the APA crew could even get the weapons of their choice, considering the ramjet Adders, R-37s and Novator K-100s they're constantly banging on about appear to be essentially mythical at this point in time...

 

[Todjaeger]

I don't think the APA crew could even get the weapons of their choice, considering the ramjet Adders, R-37s and Novator K-100s they're constantly banging on about appear to be essentially mythical at this point in time...

Those weapons are not "mythical" as you suggest, you should know better. They are in fact just made with super stealth technology, so that they are invisible. And have no IR or EM signature. And...

 

[AegisFC]

Those weapons are not "mythical" as you suggest, you should know better. They are in fact just made with super stealth technology, so that they are invisible. And have no IR or EM signature. And...

Plasma stealth right?

 

[Todjaeger]

Plasma stealth right?

Shh! It is supposed to be a secret. Just like the RAAF pilots will not see the sharks with lazerbeams coming until it is too late.

 

[StobieWan]

Plasma stealth right?

Da! Russian STRONG!

 

[Volkodav]

Well, the last 5-6 years of that mobs sideshow have had some positive results. Both sides of Govt have worked out that they are idealogues and have basically sidelined them as much as poss - I note the tolerance and appretite for these fools on both sides of Govt turned off once they got into the job and were exposed to the classified briefs

Jensen will never get into a position of direct influence. Even the curr Govt had not canned the Science rep I serious;y doubt that he would have got the gong.

APA and co. burnt their "goodwill" long ago - and all through their own shrilling
,
The sad thing is that they still think that they are relevant and think that when they get trotted out by the press is because they're newsworthy. Although I do think that Kopp has worked this out which is why he is decidedly less visible

I think Kopp wishes he could rewind time to when he back seated in an SH and wrote about it being the ideal supplement to the classics. Used to enjoy his stuff in the 90s.

 

[ADMk2]

I think Kopp wishes he could rewind time to when he back seated in an SH and wrote about it being the ideal supplement to the classics. Used to enjoy his stuff in the 90s.

I think he has belatedly realised the futility of going down the path of painting himself as an "air combat expert" when nothing could be further from the truth. He should have stuck to his calling, explaining terms to children and the general public that the broadsheet media can't (or won't) rather than trying to show the Airforce as incompetent (which of course it isn't) and only he and Goon can save the day...

 

[koala]

Hawk127

Hi All,

I am more of a lurker than a defence professional

But I do have a question for our wonderful defence personnel especially the RAAF team about what value and what lifetime our Hawrk127's can keep going now we are acquiring F35's.

Are they still relevant to the transition to the 35's and are they any good for anything but training?

Just asking but though it would be a good debate and look forward to a professional advise.

Cheers Chris

 

[ADMk2]

Hi All,

I am more of a lurker than a defence professional

But I do have a question for our wonderful defence personnel especially the RAAF team about what value and what lifetime our Hawrk127's can keep going now we are acquiring F35's.

Are they still relevant to the transition to the 35's and are they any good for anything but training?

Just asking but though it would be a good debate and look forward to a professional advise.

Cheers Chris

Hey mate, interesting question. They have a planned upgrade going on at the moment (basically bringing them up to Mk 128 standard) so they will remain a competent training aircraft. How well adapted they are to F-35 however is an interesting question.

There is one very big difference between flying an F-35 and a Hawk of any variation and that is the F-35 is a 'side stick' F-16 style while the Hawk and RAAF's Hornet series are all centre stick.

No doubt simulator time will be relied upon heavily to overcome this difference...

As to the other part of your question, the Hawk Mk 127 are capable of mounting Sidewinder missiles, Mk 82 500lbs bombs and a 30mm cannon, so they could perform a light attack / point air defence role against a low level threat, but things would have to be pretty dire before they were used and how that gels with the low level threat that they would be capable of facing, doesn't make a lot of sense...

The fact is they are a trainer, not a combat aircraft. They have no radar, no electro-optical targeting system, no electronic warfare self-protection systems, no helmet mounted sighting system and they are a subsonic only aircraft. They would be at significant risk from virtually any real combat threat.

 

[gf0012-aust]

x-link red flag

Australian air force to showcase upgraded electronic warfare during Exercise Red Flag 14-2 in Alaska - Airforce Technology