yeah,its a good add! the beat ive ever seen in regards for defence recruitment.
Recruitment Issues
- Thread starter gf0012-aust
- Start date
Yeah, its a real nice one. I've seen it a couoke of time already.
RAN recruitment from overseas
The full page advert in Navy News (P44) aimed at RN personnel to make the move and join the RAN with 3,000 hours of sunshine per year and business class airfares for you and your family looks an attractive offer. Can't see it working the other way round but direct recruitment from overseas is certainly the flavour of the month for police and health sectors in Australia. I'd be interested to see the uptake for Naval personnel, and more importantly the retention once the minimum tenure is up...
http://publishing.yudu.com/A9cr/navynewsapril/resources/index.htm
The full page advert in Navy News (P44) aimed at RN personnel to make the move and join the RAN with 3,000 hours of sunshine per year and business class airfares for you and your family looks an attractive offer. Can't see it working the other way round but direct recruitment from overseas is certainly the flavour of the month for police and health sectors in Australia. I'd be interested to see the uptake for Naval personnel, and more importantly the retention once the minimum tenure is up...
http://publishing.yudu.com/A9cr/navynewsapril/resources/index.htm
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21618796-31477,00.html
"
Use cadets to boost ADF numbers, says Jeffrey
The government has recently unveiled initiatives including an expensive new advertising campaign and a one-year trial service for students to boost recruitments.
Last year, the ADF recruited around 1000 less people than the annual recruitment target of 8500.
Speaking from the Anzac Dawn Service in Canberra today, Major-General Jeffery said recruiting was a challenge during times of high employment, but promoting the cadet corps could increase numbers.
"I'm a great believer in the cadet corps. I think the more cadets we have serving in the Army, Navy, Air Force, I think the greater recruiting potential," Maj-Gen Jeffery told the Nine Network.
"Again, that has been dealt with to increase the number of cadets in the schools and the regional units."
Maj-Gen Jeffery graduated from the Royal Military College Duntroon in 1958 and was later awarded the Military Cross for distinguished service in action during a tour of Vietnam."
I think the GG may have a point. Get em interested young. When I was a kid, a lot of high schools had cadet corps. Admittedly in rural NSW they tended to be more army oriented than navy.
I can't see why some high schools, esp those closer to some naval bases couldn't establish naval cadets.
School aged kids love things military - well a sub population thereof - . Posters are an excellent way fostering and maintaining interest. The navy should release a series of large posters of current and proposed future naval military equipment. Exploded views showing parts and layouts, performance, specifications, weapons..... don't skimp on the weapons details and pictures.
Done well, they would be a great campaigning item for the navy, or airforce, or army.
There's got to be enough public source material available on such things as the Aegis radar, ESSM, Standard 2 IIIA, Harpoon II, Nulka, Collins subs, the new AWDs and LHDs that you could make heaps of posters with lots of technical pictures and cutaways etc.
rb
"
Use cadets to boost ADF numbers, says Jeffrey
- April 25, 2007
The government has recently unveiled initiatives including an expensive new advertising campaign and a one-year trial service for students to boost recruitments.
Last year, the ADF recruited around 1000 less people than the annual recruitment target of 8500.
Speaking from the Anzac Dawn Service in Canberra today, Major-General Jeffery said recruiting was a challenge during times of high employment, but promoting the cadet corps could increase numbers.
"I'm a great believer in the cadet corps. I think the more cadets we have serving in the Army, Navy, Air Force, I think the greater recruiting potential," Maj-Gen Jeffery told the Nine Network.
"Again, that has been dealt with to increase the number of cadets in the schools and the regional units."
Maj-Gen Jeffery graduated from the Royal Military College Duntroon in 1958 and was later awarded the Military Cross for distinguished service in action during a tour of Vietnam."
I think the GG may have a point. Get em interested young. When I was a kid, a lot of high schools had cadet corps. Admittedly in rural NSW they tended to be more army oriented than navy.
I can't see why some high schools, esp those closer to some naval bases couldn't establish naval cadets.
School aged kids love things military - well a sub population thereof - . Posters are an excellent way fostering and maintaining interest. The navy should release a series of large posters of current and proposed future naval military equipment. Exploded views showing parts and layouts, performance, specifications, weapons..... don't skimp on the weapons details and pictures.
Done well, they would be a great campaigning item for the navy, or airforce, or army.
There's got to be enough public source material available on such things as the Aegis radar, ESSM, Standard 2 IIIA, Harpoon II, Nulka, Collins subs, the new AWDs and LHDs that you could make heaps of posters with lots of technical pictures and cutaways etc.
rb
This is an interesting subject and one hotly debated, but frankly with sea going pay uniform allowance rental assistance etc. etc the reality is we are not going to go back to "the good old days" before the small perks were taken away thanks to APS complaining that they didn't get the same as actual serving members (anyway different story) the puss should stop screwing around with the extras leave them as are get my base wage slap a 25% increase, bam dun. 25% may seem high however there hasent been a pay rise in from what i can figure round the 8-11 year mark, there has been to meet inflation but not a real rise in pay. as for current situation you so much as look at a photo of a sub and there is a submariner sitting over your shoulder selling the sub arm lol but who wants to serve on a long hard black cylinder that plunges the dark depths full of seamen
Really nothing that isn't already known but this was in today's paper...
http://www.theage.com.au/news/natio...d-as-crews-quit/2007/05/05/1177788470709.html
Collins boats left stranded as crews quit
Tom Hyland
May 6, 2007
http://www.theage.com.au/news/natio...d-as-crews-quit/2007/05/05/1177788470709.html
Collins boats left stranded as crews quit
Tom Hyland
May 6, 2007
Yet another speedy journalist pouncing on the "scoop"
been like that for a little while now. probabley saves more by having them tied up, going to need to if they can entice any able seaman over for extra $25000
everyone is seeing the downside of having ships doing longer maintanence hauls, but it would'nt hurt the ships on the long run.
i know, i'm a optimist
been like that for a little while now. probabley saves more by having them tied up, going to need to if they can entice any able seaman over for extra $25000
everyone is seeing the downside of having ships doing longer maintanence hauls, but it would'nt hurt the ships on the long run.
i know, i'm a optimist
I think the submarines are a special case. If your struggling to get people onto light, spacey, fresh aired surface vessels, how the hell are you going to get people to live in a armpit for very little extra cash. They should be well paid, improved shore/holidays etc. Being a submariner is a pretty hardcore job.
The new AWD's and LHD (in particular) should be models of modern defence living. Spacey (under normal conditions, under war time sure pack em in), well appointed, a wide screen LCD tv in everyroom, ensuite would be worth while, movie theater, shops, gyms, maybe even basketball courts (or squash/indoor cricket or something) etc on the LHD. Some of these can be flexable spaces, so in periods of peace and with normal crew they are these recreational areas. When loaded full of troops they can be adapted to what ever is needed.
The you can really sell the life style, 360 degree ocean views, nice little aircond appartment, restraunt food, a sport team you can play with AT SEA, take a run around the deck every morning, floodable dock pool?, skeet shooting and then a few hours doing a regular job (flying F-35B's/helos, command stuff, mechanics repairing equipment in the hanger etc).. Work hard play hard. 8hr day. 8hr working, 8hr rec, 8hr sleep.
It may sound wasteful or expensive, but honestly this is the sort of stuff ADF is going to *HAVE* to do. People these days demand better than 1912 living conditions and hot bunks and little metal boxes. The recruitment issue isn't going to solve itself.
Make it fit for professionals. The reserve should be expose to this as well. Other escorting ships should be able to send some crew over to the LHD between shifts a few times a week so everyone gets the benifit.
Hell, I have a pretty nice job as a science teacher, if I could be officer on a LHD and have that type of lifestyle I would sign up as a reservist immediately. I bet I could get a dozen others from my rugby club or friends to sign up as well if I could convince them of the benifits. Having that sort of rank would also help me in my civilian career.
Hence why every where a LHD goes you have half the navy following it. It should be the party ship (in some respects). But definately a very nice place to be.
The new AWD's and LHD (in particular) should be models of modern defence living. Spacey (under normal conditions, under war time sure pack em in), well appointed, a wide screen LCD tv in everyroom, ensuite would be worth while, movie theater, shops, gyms, maybe even basketball courts (or squash/indoor cricket or something) etc on the LHD. Some of these can be flexable spaces, so in periods of peace and with normal crew they are these recreational areas. When loaded full of troops they can be adapted to what ever is needed.
The you can really sell the life style, 360 degree ocean views, nice little aircond appartment, restraunt food, a sport team you can play with AT SEA, take a run around the deck every morning, floodable dock pool?, skeet shooting and then a few hours doing a regular job (flying F-35B's/helos, command stuff, mechanics repairing equipment in the hanger etc).. Work hard play hard. 8hr day. 8hr working, 8hr rec, 8hr sleep.
It may sound wasteful or expensive, but honestly this is the sort of stuff ADF is going to *HAVE* to do. People these days demand better than 1912 living conditions and hot bunks and little metal boxes. The recruitment issue isn't going to solve itself.
Make it fit for professionals. The reserve should be expose to this as well. Other escorting ships should be able to send some crew over to the LHD between shifts a few times a week so everyone gets the benifit.
Hell, I have a pretty nice job as a science teacher, if I could be officer on a LHD and have that type of lifestyle I would sign up as a reservist immediately. I bet I could get a dozen others from my rugby club or friends to sign up as well if I could convince them of the benifits. Having that sort of rank would also help me in my civilian career.
Hence why every where a LHD goes you have half the navy following it. It should be the party ship (in some respects). But definately a very nice place to be.
I think this is the wrong path to take. The RAN is going to attract the wrong kind of sailor/officer appealing to how easy, comfortable, entertaining (and lucrative) working life in the fleet is. The navy has a dodgy enough image with its embarassing uniforms, officers and petty officers getting away with bullying, and general incompetence (e.g. sailor/baseball caps cf. RN berets, culture of bullying at Stirling/sexual favours for marks at Cerberus, Shark 02 crash).
The behaviour of the 15 RN personnel captured by the Iranians is a perfect example, who'd want to serve with people who behave like Big Brother contestants? I'd be embarassed to associated with such people, and demoralised at the so-called leadership of their superior officers.
The investigative programme 4Corners did a story on the new generation of Australian soldiers in "@nzacs"
"TRAVIS ROBINSON (FORMER SOLDIER): There was this one stage where we were just getting soldiers marching into battalion that were just absolutely pathetic and would whinge about sleeping in mud or things that infantrymen have to do. And it was just, you know, as a soldier, you just grin and bear it. But these people coming through were just a massive pack of whingers."
Yeah, I remember talking to my platoon commanders and sergeants, and section commanders, just saying, "What's going on with this new recruitment?"
You can read the full transcript on their website.
There is a simple and easy way to solve the recruiting problem: spend more money. And the Federal Government has heaps of money.
They'd just prefer to do Defence on the cheap. Case in point is allowing people who have previously used drugs into the ADF. Rather than upping salaries to attract more and better people into the recruiting pool, they'd prefer to lower the standards. It can't be spun any other way.
Recruiting isn't a deeply complex issue, we don't need another government inquiry to tell us that historically high employment, and boom times in mining industry, have shrunk the recruiting pool.
We just need the Feds to start spending big on salaries.
Howard and Nelson love being photographed with soldiers, sailors and airmen, someone should ask them why they aren't spending enough on salaries to fix the recruiting problem. And if they try to use the high employment/booming economy as an excuse, remind them that this also means booming tax revenue too, so it's a problem of their choosing.
How about we just have a barbie and esky on the top deck 2 finish off the week. I can see your point, and this is a reason why i'd like to see the BPE win out. it holds 16 Recreation rooms, which won' be in use by troops every time the ship sails, so the crew can use it to their advantage, and it does offer more bunk space, with the spanish using it to carry a platoon of marines in their version, thats before counting any Army transported forces. so theres a few extra rooms. The mistral does not come with such luxuries, and thats why they will most likely miss out, much like the concerns over sending troops by C130H, the discomfort caused can have impacts on the ground. The more ready the soldiers are, the better it is for the mission, with Gyms, Tvs rooms(in everyroom is pushing it) and open spaces for PT.
As for the AWD, it will be like an ANZAC class where there is living "space" but your there to do a job and do it well. These ships don't always spends months at sea, head down to garden island, there are at time 1-2 Anzacs tied up as well as manoora or Kanimbla when theres no Excercise or troop movements. The belief some people have is that the navy spends 11 months at sea and month preparing to go to sea, which is way off the mark. The lifestyle is not for everyone, as you can't simply go down to the pub every friday nite, but when you are back on shore, hell go for it, don't leave till monday morning if you can. The AWD will perhaps offer more space then an Adelaide class, as both have a crew of 220 yet the ADW is larger Vessel. so its not going to be overly better, but these ships do hold creature comforts onboard and thats all you would need when serving, and thats what the extra $10,000 is for.
Yes, your there for a job. But this ain't 1944. Look at submarine recruitment, we can't find 12 x ~50 = 600 people from a population of over 20 million who will work in those kind of conditions.
While the mass employment is driven a mainly by the resource boom, we are moving forward, things aren't just going to go back how they were, people won't return to the ADF after the boom. You want talented, skilled people? Get in line. ADF is limited in what it can pay (unlike many in private sector). Want to retain people? How are you going to do that with conditions that are below what people normally expect in civilian life.
The BBQ idea isn't a bad one. I worked construction for 2 years and guess what we had drinks and a BBQ quite regularly. It kept people happy and at work. It builds a team, it helps break down the "im shitty at the boss and gunna quit" syndrome.
Sure some people will just do it because its the job. Guess what? Its not nearly enough and the numbers are dropping.
ADF is a lifestyle, particularly the navy. How can it not be? Nearly 50 days at sea is a long time. No family, no friends outside of work, etc. What about airforce and Army people that will inevitably spend time on the LHD? How happy will they be at sea.
I would rather people are focused, happy, in physical shape and relaxed defending our country.
These aren't wasteful activities, sport is absolutely key to personal fitness, team work, charater building, hand eye coordination etc etc.
You think recruitment is hard now, I bet in 10 years its going to be 100 times harder if things don't change now. Automation will help, but jesus you still need people.
Ships like the AWD and the LHD are going to be with us for what, 20 years, maybe longer. Long term planing means concidering the future of recruitment.
I've always said the ADF has to be realistic about recruitment and retention. They can't afford to play the pay game, they can play the benifits and conditions game a bit better.
While the mass employment is driven a mainly by the resource boom, we are moving forward, things aren't just going to go back how they were, people won't return to the ADF after the boom. You want talented, skilled people? Get in line. ADF is limited in what it can pay (unlike many in private sector). Want to retain people? How are you going to do that with conditions that are below what people normally expect in civilian life.
The BBQ idea isn't a bad one. I worked construction for 2 years and guess what we had drinks and a BBQ quite regularly. It kept people happy and at work. It builds a team, it helps break down the "im shitty at the boss and gunna quit" syndrome.
Sure some people will just do it because its the job. Guess what? Its not nearly enough and the numbers are dropping.
ADF is a lifestyle, particularly the navy. How can it not be? Nearly 50 days at sea is a long time. No family, no friends outside of work, etc. What about airforce and Army people that will inevitably spend time on the LHD? How happy will they be at sea.
I would rather people are focused, happy, in physical shape and relaxed defending our country.
These aren't wasteful activities, sport is absolutely key to personal fitness, team work, charater building, hand eye coordination etc etc.
You think recruitment is hard now, I bet in 10 years its going to be 100 times harder if things don't change now. Automation will help, but jesus you still need people.
Ships like the AWD and the LHD are going to be with us for what, 20 years, maybe longer. Long term planing means concidering the future of recruitment.
I've always said the ADF has to be realistic about recruitment and retention. They can't afford to play the pay game, they can play the benifits and conditions game a bit better.
actually the RAN does hold bbqs on board, the best one was held on the former carrier HMAS Melbourne when it pulled into a US port, the yanks had a bit of a laugh as it pulls up to a USN Carrier(forget which) and dwarfed in size. The Capt noticed this and ordered the beer ration be put out and a bbq held on the flight deck, much to the USNs pleasure
While i would like to see more space and comfort, some things are unavailable to sheer cost and limited space, remember a sub has just enough room for crew let alone anything else. The AWD and its space is already designed, future ships though may offer more, such as the Littoral combat ship. The ability to make the LCS more habitiable comes from the less crew it requires. With future ships offering more size for less crew, the possibility of more features is growing, hell i'd like to have a ship as comfortable as a cruise liner that still could wipe out normandy but its not practical at times, and yes the added expense stops it from happening. The designers think of budgets because the purchaser is as well.
The inside of the former HMAS Jervis Bay was a lot more comfortable then the entire fleet so that troops could arrive at higher speeds without a stiff back, but as i understand from sum the stomach still felt fout of whack.
While i would like to see more space and comfort, some things are unavailable to sheer cost and limited space, remember a sub has just enough room for crew let alone anything else. The AWD and its space is already designed, future ships though may offer more, such as the Littoral combat ship. The ability to make the LCS more habitiable comes from the less crew it requires. With future ships offering more size for less crew, the possibility of more features is growing, hell i'd like to have a ship as comfortable as a cruise liner that still could wipe out normandy but its not practical at times, and yes the added expense stops it from happening. The designers think of budgets because the purchaser is as well.
The inside of the former HMAS Jervis Bay was a lot more comfortable then the entire fleet so that troops could arrive at higher speeds without a stiff back, but as i understand from sum the stomach still felt fout of whack.
50 days at sea is a long time,and in the 80,s with your sea allow,and no where to spend up,it was good in comparison with civie jobs. But now houseing prices are out of control,and a bloke can spend 30 days off shore,at mine site,or doing shut downs for 21-30 days and earn 2 x what the Navy will offer. I was working with an ex stoker in dampier recently,he did 10 yrs. he is on a 3 week on 3 off rotation,and does shut downs on his 3 weeks off. I think if defence cut some sort of a houseing deal for long term service,it would become a lot more attractive to stay in.
ALMOST 18,000 defence personnel will receive pay rises of up to $5000 a year in a bid to boost recruitment and encourage soldiers, tempted by high private sector salaries, to stay in the military.
Defence Minister Brendan Nelson said the Australian Defence Force (ADF) needed to grow from 51,000 to about 57,000 by 2016 and that was a challenging target given the strength of the economy.
Dr Nelson said the 2006-07 defence budget provided $2.1 billion over the next decade for recruitment and retention initiatives, starting with a restructure aimed at streamlining current cumbersome pay scales.
"Almost 18,000 personnel will receive up to $5,000 per annum under stage one," he said. Stage two will provide further pay rises for some personnel.
The Budget also provides a new home loans assistance package with higher subsidies ($864 million over 10 years), a major advertising campaign to brand defence as an employer of choice ($228 million) and a scheme to advise those in defence considering alternative careers ($125 million).
There are specific measures to address problem areas. Submariners will received bigger deployment allowances, while military doctors will receive up to $8000 a year to improve professional skills.
"These integrated measures will increase recruiting intakes and reduce separation rates and are designed to ensure the ADF grows to its authorised targets in coming years," Dr Nelson said.
The defence budget for 2007-08 reaches $22 billion, a very substantial increase of $2.1 billion or 10.6 per cent on 2006-07. That represents 2 per cent of gross domestic product and 9.3 per cent of government outlays.
Under the current White Paper commitment to 3 per cent annual increases, the defence budget will reach $29.9 billion in 2016-17.
The 2007-08 Budget also includes substantial extra funding to meet the costs of already announced new equipment including 24 Super Hornets with $621 million this year. In all, the new Hornets will cost $6.6 billion over 13 years, of which the actual aircraft and weapons costs $3.9 billion.
There's also substantial extra funding - $4 billion over 10 years - for defence logistics, hard-pressed by ongoing operations in the Middle East, Afghanistan, East Timor and the Solomon Islands.
The Government has provided $703 million over the next four years for operations in Afghanistan where a special forces task group is set to deploy.
An additional $389 million has been allocated to maintain the deployment of some 1,500 personnel in the Middle East including about 900 in Iraq.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21696106-1702,00.html
Money money money...MONEY!!!
Defence Minister Brendan Nelson said the Australian Defence Force (ADF) needed to grow from 51,000 to about 57,000 by 2016 and that was a challenging target given the strength of the economy.
Dr Nelson said the 2006-07 defence budget provided $2.1 billion over the next decade for recruitment and retention initiatives, starting with a restructure aimed at streamlining current cumbersome pay scales.
"Almost 18,000 personnel will receive up to $5,000 per annum under stage one," he said. Stage two will provide further pay rises for some personnel.
The Budget also provides a new home loans assistance package with higher subsidies ($864 million over 10 years), a major advertising campaign to brand defence as an employer of choice ($228 million) and a scheme to advise those in defence considering alternative careers ($125 million).
There are specific measures to address problem areas. Submariners will received bigger deployment allowances, while military doctors will receive up to $8000 a year to improve professional skills.
"These integrated measures will increase recruiting intakes and reduce separation rates and are designed to ensure the ADF grows to its authorised targets in coming years," Dr Nelson said.
The defence budget for 2007-08 reaches $22 billion, a very substantial increase of $2.1 billion or 10.6 per cent on 2006-07. That represents 2 per cent of gross domestic product and 9.3 per cent of government outlays.
Under the current White Paper commitment to 3 per cent annual increases, the defence budget will reach $29.9 billion in 2016-17.
The 2007-08 Budget also includes substantial extra funding to meet the costs of already announced new equipment including 24 Super Hornets with $621 million this year. In all, the new Hornets will cost $6.6 billion over 13 years, of which the actual aircraft and weapons costs $3.9 billion.
There's also substantial extra funding - $4 billion over 10 years - for defence logistics, hard-pressed by ongoing operations in the Middle East, Afghanistan, East Timor and the Solomon Islands.
The Government has provided $703 million over the next four years for operations in Afghanistan where a special forces task group is set to deploy.
An additional $389 million has been allocated to maintain the deployment of some 1,500 personnel in the Middle East including about 900 in Iraq.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21696106-1702,00.html
Money money money...MONEY!!!
I think the money will help retention. Definately.
But I don't think it will improve recruitment a whole lot. As it has been pointed out you can earn twice as much, with better conditions. You aren't going to entice a large number of new blood.
Most of the previous servicemans accomodation can end up quiet negitive for individuals as they never end up tieing up money in a big house asset. So any sort of housing assistance would have to be carefully promoted and carefully planned.
subs are a different boat, and maybe we can squeeze something out of GF about conditions. But I wouldn't expect wholesale changes. Reduced crew requirements for sure.
But something like a LHD, the space is there. The whole ship is flexable space. Costs would be minimal its the will that is lacking.
But hey, I only worked for a year as a recruiter, specialising in science, engineers and trades and did a large amount of work for mining companies throughout Australia. I have been at the coal face of recruiting these sorts of problems. lots of mechanics, welders, SCADA, engineers, project manager, aviation radio and electronics people etc.
I don't envy ADFs problems. Rural or mining jobs, filled with city people, the big pluses are things like affordable housing. A family that could only afford a flat in sydney, could get a big 4 bedroom house, a pool, a nice garden, a new car as a trade for the remote location.
The ADF can't offer that. Not only that, you get paid less, you are not really contactable like you are on the some of the other mine jobs, and your away for longer blocks. Not only that the conditions are generally, lets face it cramped, crappy etc. Then theres the hair, fitness, drug tests, copping shit from CO's, ridgid lifestyle, crappy uniforms etc.
Single people are put off by the lower money, the loss/restricted of social life (despite the shore leave shenadagins). The family man spends more time in bigger blocks away from family, they aren't 24/7 contactable as the mines, or a flexable as you are at the mines with say emergency leave or shift swapping etc. Women are again, a whole different game and not many positives.
Its a very small group your targeting and its getting smaller. While a pay increase will help retention, its not casting a bigger net.
But I don't think it will improve recruitment a whole lot. As it has been pointed out you can earn twice as much, with better conditions. You aren't going to entice a large number of new blood.
Most of the previous servicemans accomodation can end up quiet negitive for individuals as they never end up tieing up money in a big house asset. So any sort of housing assistance would have to be carefully promoted and carefully planned.
subs are a different boat, and maybe we can squeeze something out of GF about conditions. But I wouldn't expect wholesale changes. Reduced crew requirements for sure.
But something like a LHD, the space is there. The whole ship is flexable space. Costs would be minimal its the will that is lacking.
But hey, I only worked for a year as a recruiter, specialising in science, engineers and trades and did a large amount of work for mining companies throughout Australia. I have been at the coal face of recruiting these sorts of problems. lots of mechanics, welders, SCADA, engineers, project manager, aviation radio and electronics people etc.
I don't envy ADFs problems. Rural or mining jobs, filled with city people, the big pluses are things like affordable housing. A family that could only afford a flat in sydney, could get a big 4 bedroom house, a pool, a nice garden, a new car as a trade for the remote location.
The ADF can't offer that. Not only that, you get paid less, you are not really contactable like you are on the some of the other mine jobs, and your away for longer blocks. Not only that the conditions are generally, lets face it cramped, crappy etc. Then theres the hair, fitness, drug tests, copping shit from CO's, ridgid lifestyle, crappy uniforms etc.
Single people are put off by the lower money, the loss/restricted of social life (despite the shore leave shenadagins). The family man spends more time in bigger blocks away from family, they aren't 24/7 contactable as the mines, or a flexable as you are at the mines with say emergency leave or shift swapping etc. Women are again, a whole different game and not many positives.
Its a very small group your targeting and its getting smaller. While a pay increase will help retention, its not casting a bigger net.
the perks are there, you have just got to find them. Defence doesn't like to tell people about all the bonuses and insider deals they get because any government could look at the budget when theres an economic slump and go "cut, cut, and ditch".
$200 is paid of a serving members rent, loans and credit cards arranged through Defence credit funds are lower on fees and interest rates then anywhere else. And its even better for those who are living on base who pay a small amount for accomadation.
Bonuses paid to serving personel truely do compensate for any situations. A Seaman posted to a ship, whether under sail or not, gets $10,000PA. If that ship is underway that same seaman does not pay for fuel, food at home or rack up electricity and water bills, saving even more money for him to enjoy on better things. Compare trades, although some personel will get less then a civie fully trained, they made up for that while under training or doing apprenticeship. They still earned $35,000+ while someone doing the same gets $6-8 an hour if lucky, around $16000 a year, under half what ADF trainees get.
And the Resume would help more when leaving the Service, as a company will still put you as a standout compared with those who did the hard yards in the civie world. The reason we have trouble keeping Army captains and those of equal rank in ADF is that they can get good money later on in their careers in the outside world. Now this must be accepted that people will leave, a change won't do much there, but the challenge is getting people to that point. The reason is not that people get better offers in the Civie world, its that there is never enough information for them to get. I
've got my application finally fixed after 6 months, but the problem is that the jobs on offer have limited information about them. now i know the Navy more then most people who really have no idea except that they have ships that are long hard and full of seaman, so i can at least accept this but the lack of info is ridiculous for wood be applicants. And don't expect to find somewhere to go to speak to recruiters, they expect you to know advanced navigation BEFORE you apply. case in point, i challenge someone to drive into parramatta without the address and find me DFR. And the only way you know about it in newcastle is a couple of posters on the window, which is truely more then Parra i can assure you. if you can't establish Shop front places, and move away from just the office building to a sort of info desk in a busy CBD or practical location, then whats the point.
Icelord
$200 is paid of a serving members rent, loans and credit cards arranged through Defence credit funds are lower on fees and interest rates then anywhere else. And its even better for those who are living on base who pay a small amount for accomadation.
Bonuses paid to serving personel truely do compensate for any situations. A Seaman posted to a ship, whether under sail or not, gets $10,000PA. If that ship is underway that same seaman does not pay for fuel, food at home or rack up electricity and water bills, saving even more money for him to enjoy on better things. Compare trades, although some personel will get less then a civie fully trained, they made up for that while under training or doing apprenticeship. They still earned $35,000+ while someone doing the same gets $6-8 an hour if lucky, around $16000 a year, under half what ADF trainees get.
And the Resume would help more when leaving the Service, as a company will still put you as a standout compared with those who did the hard yards in the civie world. The reason we have trouble keeping Army captains and those of equal rank in ADF is that they can get good money later on in their careers in the outside world. Now this must be accepted that people will leave, a change won't do much there, but the challenge is getting people to that point. The reason is not that people get better offers in the Civie world, its that there is never enough information for them to get. I
've got my application finally fixed after 6 months, but the problem is that the jobs on offer have limited information about them. now i know the Navy more then most people who really have no idea except that they have ships that are long hard and full of seaman, so i can at least accept this but the lack of info is ridiculous for wood be applicants. And don't expect to find somewhere to go to speak to recruiters, they expect you to know advanced navigation BEFORE you apply. case in point, i challenge someone to drive into parramatta without the address and find me DFR. And the only way you know about it in newcastle is a couple of posters on the window, which is truely more then Parra i can assure you. if you can't establish Shop front places, and move away from just the office building to a sort of info desk in a busy CBD or practical location, then whats the point.
Icelord
contedicavour
New Member
Just out of curiosity, access to Australian police forces is restricted to personnel who belonged to the armed forces or not ?
It would be a good way to ensure job placement after the end of military service.
Same thing for access to several types of jobs in the defence industry.
cheers
It would be a good way to ensure job placement after the end of military service.
Same thing for access to several types of jobs in the defence industry.
cheers
no
The police is made up of applicants from civilain backgrounds, although former soldiers can apply and be processed like everyone else, and being Ex-defence is a big boost in your application. Ex commando or SAS will get a good chance at joining the State Protection Group(SWAT). I have heard a lot of the Western Australian Police is Ex-army and SAS, with them being based in WA many SAS quit after Return of service and join WA Police. The restriction would not work as the NSW Police alone has over 15,000 officers, and the army has under 30,000 soldiers
I'm not too familiar with the Extent of the french or Italian Paramilitary forces and their recruitment though.
contedicavour
New Member
Yes but not only carabinieri and gendarmes. There have often been plans about priority integration of former military into civilian police and even civilian protection agency and forestry and park service !
This allows for tens of thousands of partially guaranteed government contracts for former military, especially those not senior enough or qualified enough to be hired by the defence industry.
cheers