RAN Fremantle class disposal suggestion

[Supe]

BTW official name for "East Timor" changed to "Timor Leste" upon achieving Independance. "Leste" means "East" IIRC

yeah.Old habits die hard. Who says Myanmar these days? It's Burma damnit!

I agree with GF. Dinky boats just won't cut the mustard if you plan to patrol outside of a 'protected bay' as that is where important economic assets lie. This nation will have to develop a real capability in securing economic interests that can only be provided by ships capable of doing the work.

If the Fremantles aren't up to standard, then a proposal for new ones could be made. This isn't just old school paternalism here, Australia also has genuine interest in ensuring Timor Leste (happy GF? ) remains viable state. Erosion of territorial integrity and economic means will have dire consequences for TL.

Would Armidales be out of the question? Servicing could be done in Darwin as well as training (HMAS Coonawarra) till TL gets a domestic capability happening.

@GF:

I suspect that a patrolie is on the cards for TL as we have been donating a fair bit of other gear to them.

Such as? I am aware TL received East German uniforms and IIRC Australia has provided some M16's... Also training. I'm always on the lookout for news on the development of FDTL.

 

[alexsa]

No, training boat is TV Pinduro which is basically a small 13m fishing boat with the same radar, GPS plotter, gyro compass, auto pilot as well as communications equipment. Pinduro is owned by AMC Search who are responsible for provision of trg.

Pinduro would be next to useless outside of a protected Bay.

The training vessel I thought Sea Toby was referring to was the MV Seahorse Mercator operated by DMS for officer navigational training. this is a modified version of the Pacific Patrol Boat and was built by Tenix in 1998.

http://portal.pohub.com/portal/page?_pageid=49,46179&_dad=pogprtl&_schema=POGPRTL

http://www.defence.gov.au/news/navynews/editions/1998/11_16_98/story6.htm

My appolgies on the "East Timor" changed to "Timor Leste" issue.

 

[gf0012-aust]

The training vessel I thought Sea Toby was referring to was the MV Seahorse Mercator operated by DMS for officer navigational training. this is a modified version of the Pacific Patrol Boat and was built by Tenix in 1998.

http://portal.pohub.com/portal/page?_pageid=49,46179&_dad=pogprtl&_schema=POGPRTL

http://www.defence.gov.au/news/navynews/editions/1998/11_16_98/story6.htm

My appolgies on the "East Timor" changed to "Timor Leste" issue.

Just checked up re Timor Lestes naval trg issues.

Portugal has primary responsibility for TL's naval requirements - there is an expectation that the responsibility may shift in a couple of years.

Aust Maritime College Search have primary trg responsibility for equip and navy trg - hence MV Pinturo

P&O are involved with some PPBP NO trg - hence MV Seahorse Mercator

 

[alexsa]

Just checked up re Timor Lestes naval trg issues.

Portugal has primary responsibility for TL's naval requirements - there is an expectation that the responsibility may shift in a couple of years.

Aust Maritime College Search have primary trg responsibility for equip and navy trg - hence MV Pinturo

P&O are involved with some PPBP NO trg - hence MV Seahorse Mercator

No argument with what you say and given you are much better informed I would normally not argue with you, however, I think we have our wires crossed. I was responding to Sea Toby who suggested:

I believe the Australian navy uses one Pacific class patrol boat for training purposes. While its not brand new, East Timor would be better off with it rather than a worn out Fremantle class boat. Australia could build another Armidale to replace it.

I considered the Pacific Class Patrol Boat he was referring to could only be the MV Seahorse Mercator and, as noted, this is operated by DMS for RAN officer training. As such it could not be handed over to Timor Lestes as suggested.

I have no argument with the fact that AMC do much training for the region and would use ther own assets for this purpose. AMC search continues to provide training for operators of Pacific Class Patrol Boats.

My appologoes if I contributed to the confusion.

 

[seantheaussie]

BTW official name for "East Timor" changed to "Timor Leste" upon achieving Independance. "Leste" means "East" IIRC

The convention is to speak your own language when refering to other countries. Unless you call France francais & Germany deutchland it is still East Timor.

 

[gf0012-aust]

My appologoes if I contributed to the confusion.

No apols needed - you did in fact force us all to look at the bigger picture - always a good thing in these discussions.

The convention is to speak your own language when refering to other countries. Unless you call France francais & Germany deutchland it is still East Timor.

Thats certainly what the general public and the average journos do - but all official correspondence we've ever sent reflects their proper name out of respect.

All Int'l treaty and obligation documents with ET had to be redrafted upon achieving nationhood - or had caveat addendums added.

where poss, the convention is to apply their own name out of respect.

In a forum like this though, it becomes almost inconsequential. As soon as nation states and representations become involved, it does however change.

It's not a big issue - its more a point of pointing out what they call themselves - and certainly what they are called at the Int'l document submission level.


I certainly wasn't meaning to take anyone to task over calling them ET.

 

[Sea Toby]

Of course, I would prefer to build a new Pacific class patrol boat for Timor Leste, but the eight year old Seahorse Mercator is a better used boat to give than a 25+ year old Fremantle boat. From what I have been able to figure out, these Pacific class patrol boats are priced in the range of Australian $10-15 million. Since the Aussies are using this one for training, I suggest a new one be built, it may cost a bit more, but it shouldn't cost a whole lot more. Any of the shipyards in Australia can build it.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Of course, I would prefer to build a new Pacific class patrol boat for Timor Leste, but the eight year old Seahorse Mercator is a better used boat to give than a 25+ year old Fremantle boat. From what I have been able to figure out, these Pacific class patrol boats are priced in the range of Australian $10-15 million. Since the Aussies are using this one for training, I suggest a new one be built, it may cost a bit more, but it shouldn't cost a whole lot more. Any of the shipyards in Australia can build it.

Politically we can't do anything unless approached by the TL's, and they would be seeking advice from the portuguese as they have carriage of responsibility for TL's naval force development.

until that changes, we can't do much at all. (on the naval side of the ledger)

 

[Dick]

Fremantle Class Disposal Suggestions

I agree with what some are saying, The Fremantle class could be given to the RANR or to the Australian Navy Cadets to be used as Training Vessels or go to the Museums around Australia like the H.M.A.S Fremantle could go to the NMM in Sydney and used for Taining vessel if needed. They say the cost is large thing why they are being replaced they could of put a swing system in place to keep the fremantle's at sea more time before this. Anyway only time will tell.

 

[gf0012-aust]

I agree with what some are saying, The Fremantle class could be given to the RANR or to the Australian Navy Cadets to be used as Training Vessels or go to the Museums around Australia like the H.M.A.S Fremantle could go to the NMM in Sydney and used for Taining vessel if needed. They say the cost is large thing why they are being replaced they could of put a swing system in place to keep the fremantle's at sea more time before this. Anyway only time will tell.

Too late. A mate of mine is starting to chop them up this week. They are refurbing 6 units to give to our micronesian friends. The other 9 will be scrap metal once the good bits are cannibalised to help build the rebirthed 6.

 

[icelord]

hell i woulda bought one rather then scrap it, give it a bit of polish and leave the 50 cal and we'd have a deal, no one would dare start boat rage up here

 

[Dick]

RAN Fremantle class Disposal

As it would of been good to see all of the Fremantle class put to use some where. But thats the way it is. May I ask if anyone would know what they are doing with the Rhibs that was on them and with the comms equipment? for eg. the marine radio's? Please any assistance would be of great help.
Thank you
Dick

 

[abramsteve]

This may have been asked and answered already but...
Are some customs vessels Fremantle class? If so how many?

 

[icelord]

Nah, completely different vessels. The ACV is only a few years old
About the fleet

Australian Customs Vessels (ACVs) are 38 metres overall with a cruising speed of 20 knots for 1000 nautical miles. They can accommodate up to 16 people for extended periods.

ACVs investigate possible or confirmed incursions into Australian maritime territory and visit remote or otherwise inaccessible areas within Australia's offshore territories.

Each ACV has two 6.4 metre tenders capable of carrying two crew and four passengers on excursions of up to 30nm from the mother ship. Tenders are powered by twin 90HP outboards. Internal fuel capacity provides an adequate cruising range.

Tenders are deployed and recovered by a compensated davit system which allows safe and rapid launch/recovery of tenders in a range of sea conditions.

Customs vessels are also being progressively fitted with deck-mounted weapon systems to better enable them to deal with border incursions and other constabulary at sea. All vessels are being fitted with a 7.62mm general-purpose machine gun. National Marine Unit crewmembers also carry sidearms for personal protection. The eight ACVs are:

* ACV Roebuck Bay
* ACV Holdfast Bay
* ACV Botany Bay
* ACV Hervey Bay
* ACV Corio Bay
* ACV Arnhem Bay
* ACV Dame Roma Mitchell
* ACV Storm Bay

http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=4242

 

[abramsteve]

Cheers for that info!

After I checked your link and scrolled down to find some pics I realised where I'd gone wrong. Hell they dont even look alike!

 

[Todjaeger]

Cheers for that info!

After I checked your link and scrolled down to find some pics I realised where I'd gone wrong. Hell they dont even look alike!

Incidentally, the Armidale is a development by Austal of their earlier Bay class ACV. If you look at those two vessels, they do bear a resemblance.

Does anyone have a picture of the Sir Zelman Cowan, the Cocos Island patrol boat?

 

[Simon9]

Too late. A mate of mine is starting to chop them up this week. They are refurbing 6 units to give to our micronesian friends. The other 9 will be scrap metal once the good bits are cannibalised to help build the rebirthed 6.

This is exactly what I hoped would happen - refurb the best few with parts from the others and then just scrap the rest. Any word on who the 6 boats are going to, gf?

Not the Solomons though, I hope! If RAMSI is about to get kicked out they will end up like the current SI boats did (no idea what class they are, are they Attacks?), shooting up innocent villagers on the Weather Coast as part of the ethnic troubles. I've been to some villages that were on the receiving end of a visit from a patrol boat and there were just gaping holes ripped in the trees everywhere. I shudder to think what would have happened if it had been 40/60 fire and not just .50 cal.

 

[gf0012-aust]

This is exactly what I hoped would happen - refurb the best few with parts from the others and then just scrap the rest. Any word on who the 6 boats are going to, gf?

Not the Solomons though, I hope! If RAMSI is about to get kicked out they will end up like the current SI boats did (no idea what class they are, are they Attacks?), shooting up innocent villagers on the Weather Coast as part of the ethnic troubles. I've been to some villages that were on the receiving end of a visit from a patrol boat and there were just gaping holes ripped in the trees everywhere. I shudder to think what would have happened if it had been 40/60 fire and not just .50 cal.

Actually they aren't going to be part of the PacPatrolBoat prog. I know where 2 are going but it hasn't been publicly released yet.

PM me and I'll fill you in.

 

[icelord]

Actually they aren't going to be part of the PacPatrolBoat prog. I know where 2 are going but it hasn't been publicly released yet.

PM me and I'll fill you in.

see, thats just not funny!

 

[Simon9]

Actually they aren't going to be part of the PacPatrolBoat prog. I know where 2 are going but it hasn't been publicly released yet.

PM me and I'll fill you in.

I can't seem to PM, is it enabled on this forum? Don't worry about it, then, tell us when the info becomes public.