RAN Collins class subs: verdict?

[StingrayOZ]

As tempting as it may be, I thought the Japanese were locked up tight against such defence deals, bar the few it has with the US which seem somewhat one way. No export or codevelopment.

I would imagine both the new boats would be very simular in purpose and size.

Also Im not sure the US would like the deal.

I think Australia has made a partner with the subs, the US, and we will work together and closer as things follow on.

The only problem with this is any export deal for collins is pretty much going to be limited to Canada or the UK. Uk has there own nuke boats (although a return to diesels can't completely be ruled out I guess), and Canada has the Victoria class, for now.

 

[Waylander]

They had no problem in taking our help in developing the Type 90 so I don't see a problem for them cooperating with Australia for a new sub.

 

[StingrayOZ]

I've heard its very much a one way street with japan.

But things change anything is possible. But it would only ever be small technology sharing, the Japanese like to keep local as much as possible. Plus there are fairly different wants from both sides.

Certainly some of those japanese diesel engines would be highly desireable.

I personally would like to see UK or Canada come aboard the MkII program and order a few each.

I just hope we can get crewing requirements down to 20, then we could field all our subs all the time.

 

[Tasman]

Geez. I wish Patrick Walters would get a real job insted of coming with these half assed comments.

I almost threw today's Hobart Mercury into the fire when I read the following headline for a one page story:

"Subs to ditch 'dud' tag".

Mercury on Saturday, 7th April, 2007

This came just four days after the paper had revealed that by the end of the year Australia will actually have a submarine that will be able to patrol our waters! Really!!! Today's story was about the 'fact' that

the naval arm that had become a liability is just about ready to perform

Mercury on Saturday, 7th April, 2007

The article gave due credit to the USN for the new combat system but erroneously left the impression that without the new system the subs have been and are totally useless. The worst thing is that some of my friends actually believe this stuff. After the previous article one of them had 'a go at me' because I'd previously defended the Collins class by saying how well they had performed in exercises with the USN when he had read that they couldn't even fire a torpedo and they were obviously a waste of his tax dollars! Later I showed him the You Tube video 'Naval Battle" which includes a shot of the old destroyer escort Torrens (53) being blown apart (in real life the torpedo was fired by one of the Collins class subs).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wejMeT-gjk&NR

Let's hope that the media will now get off the navy's back and that the number one problem with the submarine force, the lack of personnel, will be quickly overcome.

Cheers

 

[Waylander]

Maybe you should send some periscope pictures taken by Collins. We showed them and in the end our sub forces are one of the last places were people search for saving money.

 

[kams]

^^Ahhh And I thought its only in India, DDM thrive. (DDM - Desi Dork Media, Desi- Slang for local or Indian, substitute 'A' in your context)

 

[Rich]

You cant look at the price of those boats alone and gauge their effectiveness. You cant even look at their capabilities and systems/weapons loads and gauge their worth.

In order to fully appreciate those boats you have to look at their "deterrence value" in order to get a true picture of the worth of the Collins. Because any hostile power that wanted to threaten Australia has to first deal with those 6 boats. They represent a big enough threat to capitol warships that they would draw a enemy force response far greater then both their numbers and costs.

Even worse, they can project power a long way with a significant weapons load. Even if, say, the PLAN were able to find them and destroy them, "which they wouldn't be", but even if they did they will have bought Australia valuable time and thrown PLAN schedules into disarray.

And until someone in the neighborhood starts building really, really good SSNs those Collins will continue to throw a monkey wrench into things.

They are a system that just cant be judged, money wise, like other platforms. They give far more per $$$ then any other platform in the RAN.

 

[StingrayOZ]

The subs also have great value outside of a large scale war.

Inteligence gathering, Specop deployments, plus many other secretive missions.

They are a extremely worthwhile capability, and most impressive how Australia has built and operated them.