PRC Peoples Liberation Army Navy

[Ananda]

HI Sutton video on the Submarine in post #716. The video already sometime over. Seems it is more explanation from his own article on this submarine.

His assesment which I found reasonable shown this is Chinese effort to build more potent coastal submarines. For me, if what HI Sutton analysts prove right, then it will potentially will be used replacing most of their old Ming class. Ming class realistically more workable as coastal submarine.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The Type 055 cruisers have 112 VLS-cells, but it is unclear how many of them are suitable for the new YJ-21 hypersonic missiles.

H I Sutton - Covert Shores

 

[Ananda]

http://1253985869.vod2.myqcloud.com/ee20c49fvodtransgzp1253985869/cdd18663387702299738321779/v.f100040.mp4

Interesting video from PLAN 73rd Anniversary. Shown the live and operational situation on their CAG. Off course it is not equivalent yet with USN carrier group operation. However they're trying to catch up.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

I just want to share this, but this is a nice serie of front view images of china's most important warships, good to compare the different types of corvettes, frigates, destroyers and cruisers.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524734266612977669

Here a nice video of the Type 55 destroyers/cruisers.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525653955430125568

Communist China's aircraft carrier had more than 100 sorties in six days in a series of drills near Japan and Taiwan.The drills, spanning a week from 3 to 9 May, took place about 160 to 230 km southwest of Okidaito Island in Japan's Okinawa Prefecture and about 160 km south of Japan's Ishigaki Island. Drills south of Ishigaki Island took place about 335 km east of Taiwan.

So the Chinese Navy is seriously improving the carrier's operational capability, gathering skills and experience in aircraft carrier operations and enhance its ability to carry out operations at more distant littoral and aerial ranges.

China's Liaoning sorties more than 100 aircraft near Japan, Taiwan

The aircraft carrier Liaoning of China's People's Liberation Army (PLA) navy flew more than 100 sorties in six days in a series of drills near Japan and Taiwan.

www.janes.com

 

[Ananda]

Not Military (yet), but definetely have military potential (just like basically Chinese research of dual potential). Swarm drone from swarm Unmanned Vessels, getting first opening on inflitration.

 

[Ananda]

China’s third aircraft carrier ‘to be launched on Dragon Boat Festival’

Military insider says it will take place on Friday and the warship ‘needs to go into sea trials as soon as possible’.

www.scmp.com

From SCMP (including the picture) of the launching schedulle for PLAN Type 003 CV. 3 EMALS and two elevators with the size range of USS Kitty Hawk Class. Even if they are not moving on toward CVN yet, it is still remarkable achiement.

2 Liaoning class STOBAR (I put the half sister Shandong as one class, eventough she's actually much modified then Liaoning/Varyag class), plus perhaps 2 type 003 CATOBAR. Already a good challenge to any Navy in East Pacific.

 

[spoz]

If that photo is recent they're a long way from sea trials; a couple of years at the very least.

 

[Ananda]

I suspect that photo is not the latest condition. If what SCMP report true, that they will launch it within this week or next, then the progress seems more advance then the photo.

If we see how the Shandong launch in April 2017 have first see trial in mid 2018 and commission by end 2019, two and half years schedule will be taken between launch and commission. For this new type 003, I suspect the time schedule will be heavily influence by the performance of their Indigenous EMALS.

 

[koxinga]

If that photo is recent they're a long way from sea trials; a couple of years at the very least.

That is pretty much the current condition. The anticipated launch date is this Friday.

It is a milestone, but nothing much beyond that. If we take the Gerald Ford as a yardstick (first of class with EMALS), she would need at least 2 - 3 years of work before we get to sea trials.

 

[John Fedup]

That is pretty much the current condition. The anticipated launch date is this Friday.

It is a milestone, but nothing much beyond that. If we take the Gerald Ford as a yardstick (first of class with EMALS), she would need at least 2 - 3 years of work before we get to sea trials.

Perhaps not if the Chinese have managed to obtain the latest design version of General Atomics’ EMALS. Espionage certainly reduces cost and speeds things up.

 

[swerve]

The Chinese have been working on the technology for a long time. They've had maglev trains which can do up to 430 km/h in service for years, & recently introduced one capable of 600 km/h.

 

[Ananda]

Chinese have been working on the technology for a long time.

Yes there's probability that their EMALS can actually perform better than US ones. China doing some tech espionage, Russian do to. However so do US and West. Everyones are checking each other.

EMALS application as carrier launch system is practically still new ground, but not a practically new tech as overall. China actually doing research on that area more or less not much differ with US time line. So there're probability they are lurking on each other reseach and designs. China in the end is catching up fast not only by espinonage, but lately more and more on their own RnD.

 

[weaponwh]

its not that easy to steal defense design, most the core design pc/lab etc are not connected to outside. also there are layer upon layers of firewall. if it was that easy then there are serous issue with US cybersecurity, which i doubt it, consider US spend tens billions in both cyberdefense/offsense.

 

[ngatimozart]

its not that easy to steal defense design, most the core design pc/lab etc are not connected to outside. also there are layer upon layers of firewall. if it was that easy then there are serous issue with US cybersecurity, which i doubt it, consider US spend tens billions in both cyberdefense/offsense.

Howabout you back this up with some sources then.

 

[ngatimozart]

The PLAN CV002 Shandong has been spotted with multiple numbers of two different types of UAV on its flight deck.


Chinese Aircraft Carrier Seen With A Fleet Of Drones On Its Deck (thedrive.com)

What is unclear are the types, make, function etc., of UAV and the reasons why they have been ranged on the flight deck.

 

[Ananda]

SCMP put another photo on the new Type 003 Carrier being prepared for launch ceremony. By roughly look at the picture, it is seems the conditions of the carrier progress is bit advance then previous photo I put above (which also from SCMP).

Off course 2-3 years scheddule for operational level still expected, base on the preparation for operational time line after launching, that Shandong doing before. This is on STOBAR carrier, thus for their first CATOBAR I suspect slightly longer then Shandong timeline before, at least.

 

[ngatimozart]

View attachment 49397

SCMP put another photo on the new Type 003 Carrier being prepared for launch ceremony. By roughly look at the picture, it is seems the conditions of the carrier progress is bit advance then previous photo I put above (which also from SCMP).

Off course 2-3 years scheddule for operational level still expected, base on the preparation for operational time line after launching, that Shandong doing before. This is on STOBAR carrier, thus for their first CATOBAR I suspect slightly longer then Shandong timeline before, at least.

They've had a stone CATOBAR CV to practise on so maybe they've sorted out most of the EMAL problems and the flyboy problems. Of course it's different at sea in the cold, howling, wind and driving rain on a pitching, rolling, heaving, deck at night when you can't see 2m in front of your face; nor hear anything except the roar of gas turbines and the howl of the wind. At the same time you're trying to keep your last meal in your stomach instead of leaning over the side feeding it to the fish. There'll still be a lot of work to do on the ship before she commences trials, and they have to work on their flight deck launch, recovery, and aircraft spotting (parking) systems etc. It'll be different to the two STOBAR CVs.

 

[Ananda]

There'll still be a lot of work to do on the ship before she commences trials, and they have to work on their flight deck launch, recovery, and aircraft spotting (parking) systems etc. It'll be different to the two STOBAR CVs.

Definetely, I really like to see how PLAN train their crew on CATOBAR operations. Marine Nationale have USN as partner to train and prepared their training regine. PLAN has to do by them selves.

Some Russian sources claim PLAN got some Help from Russian experience on Kuznetsov for Liaoning initial training regime. However they have to build on their own on this new type 003 CATOBAR. So even they manage to hand over this carrier to PLAN as operational in 3 years, I don't think it will be fully operational stage yet (relative to USN standard).

In the mean time they will have 2 set different flight deck crew with one relative proficient in STOBAR while other in CATOBAR. I'm no military expert, but any operations that have to make two seperate training regime, is not shown efficiency.

 

[Toptob]

In the mean time they will have 2 set different flight deck crew with one relative proficient in STOBAR while other in CATOBAR. I'm no military expert, but any operations that have to make two seperate training regime, is not shown efficiency.

I suspect that efficiency does not weigh too heavily in the PLAN's quest for developing their carrier operations. If we consider that STOBAR operations will at best offer marginal capabilities when compared to full CATOBAR. Then they rebuilt 001 to see how a sizable carrier is put together, and then built 002 just to see if they could build one from the ground up. With the 003 being a clear step ahead from the previous two carriers, maybe building and operating those is one big training exercise at a military industrial scale!?! Maybe this is the most efficient way the Chinese have mapped out towards developing a carrier capability. But if nothing else, it's plenty impressive in any case.

Of course, as @ngatimozart so poetically illustrated above, until the chips are down and you're actually at sea operating in real world conditions it's largely an academic exercise. But I think we can assume the Chinese are more than capable of obtaining things like training manuals for CATOBAR operations. And it wouldn't surprise me if they had people infiltrate the US and/or French navies to experience working on a carrier, or maybe even bribe or turn some people to gain access to more knowledge and experience.

In the end I don't think that STOBAR is the goal of the PLAN but something more like an intermediary step. And it wouldn't surprise me if they got rid of these ships at some time in the 30's.

 

[John Fedup]

I suspect that efficiency does not weigh too heavily in the PLAN's quest for developing their carrier operations. If we consider that STOBAR operations will at best offer marginal capabilities when compared to full CATOBAR. Then they rebuilt 001 to see how a sizable carrier is put together, and then built 002 just to see if they could build one from the ground up. With the 003 being a clear step ahead from the previous two carriers, maybe building and operating those is one big training exercise at a military industrial scale!?! Maybe this is the most efficient way the Chinese have mapped out towards developing a carrier capability. But if nothing else, it's plenty impressive in any case.

Of course, as @ngatimozart so poetically illustrated above, until the chips are down and you're actually at sea operating in real world conditions it's largely an academic exercise. But I think we can assume the Chinese are more than capable of obtaining things like training manuals for CATOBAR operations. And it wouldn't surprise me if they had people infiltrate the US and/or French navies to experience working on a carrier, or maybe even bribe or turn some people to gain access to more knowledge and experience.

In the end I don't think that STOBAR is the goal of the PLAN but something more like an intermediary step. And it wouldn't surprise me if they got rid of these ships at some time in the 30's.

If the Chinese were to develop a F-35B clone then the STOBAR carriers could see extended operation well into the 2040s. Haven’t seen any info to confirm a clone program however.